Totem Decay and/or New Lands before adverts...

[Book]

I understand you are worried about people being more spread out, which is why I addressed it in the very first post. If someone does not wish to be a hermit, no problem, jump on global, make a friend, get together and do a little dance if you like.

From what I saw tonight, and granted I haven't done the whole map by any stretch yet but still... I'm finding pretty much what I found quite a while ago. Dead totems, some not nearly built up at all, serving as place holders for players who left long ago. I don't think that makes sense in a breathing, living game. That's all I'm saying.

I also understand you are concerned about the "old" players, which is why I also addressed that in my very first post. Let me address it again, but differently.

I bought Eve many, many years ago. The game has changed so much since then that when I happen to stop in, much of my gear is ridiculously antiquated. Can I complain about that? Not in my opinion no. I left the game, it was my choice to do so, there are consequences to the choice I made. No regrets, but no expectation that I am going to hold the eve server hostage in any way because I once bought the game. What if I get an email from CCP saying they are going to purge my account because I haven't been a paying subscriber in so long? Simple, I'd have to decide if holding on to that gear is worth renewing my subscription, or if I'm just going to start over should I fall in love with the game again down the road. My decision within their defined consequences. That makes sense to me, perhaps only me, but nonetheless.

In the original star wars, there were eventually many, many dead towns and empty houses. It looked absolutely ridiculous. It was depressing. I wasn't at all upset to log in and find my belongings packaged up and my spot gone. It would have been unreasonable to believe the game should not change or grow or adapt upon my departure.

I am not suggesting "old" players should be alienated, but I am suggesting "old" players should be adult enough to realize that when they leave a game, they forfeit certain rights that paying players have. Those rights are subject to change even for paying players. That's in every single TOS out there. All things are subject to change.

As I said in my first post, I used to believe the new lands should be saved for future expansion when needed. I suggested a rapid decay because it sounded like advertising was imminent and if many people come check it out in the current landscape, it will be much like standing in old star wars servers that only prove there was once life and everyone left. That is not good for any game.

Sometimes people will disagree with you. That's okay. It doesn't mean you're wrong, it doesn't mean they are wrong, it just means we disagree. No biggie since no player is in any more of an authoritative position as any other. We all put forth our points of view, and let those with their mortgage riding on it make the decision in the end.


ps. I also found many, many improvements that I really like but unrelated to the discussion at hand. Perhaps worth another thread noting the positive changes from the point of view of a returning player at some point when I've learned more.

[MrDDT]

In EVE did they tell you they would warn you when they were going to make that gear out of date?

In EVE did you invest 1000s of clan hours into these gears and it would take that much to get the new gear again?

These players are already behind. Look at players like Rambo, he is missing a lot of the new recipes, stat and skill gains are much easier now. No one is saying that's a problem. The problem is when the devs promise you something, and you make choices based on them. They shouldnt change it because you cant take 20mins to find a spot for a totem.

New areas are not going to help these totem issues, sure they will help for a while but same ole problem will come right back. Why not have a whole zone for each player? I mean where is the limit going to be? Ive seen huge areas with 0 totems. With good resources and great views.

Look at games like UO where housing placement was locked up. If you come into the game 6 months late, you shouldn't expect to have the best piece of land there is, you have to wait your turn or wait for new areas to open up WHEN THEY ARE READY (Ready isn't just graphics and terrain in the game either, ready is when the game is ready for it, heck if it were "ready" because of that we would have 10x the size of the map we do now).


Still waiting on the "Good spot" to be defined. So I can find some, and show how easy they are to find.

[Book]

In EVE did they tell you they would warn you when they were going to make that gear out of date?

In EVE did you invest 1000s of clan hours into these gears and it would take that much to get the new gear again?

I was saying that if I got an email today saying my account will be purged due to inactivity, I would make an informed decision based on this new information. That's what I would personally do, maybe I'm strange.

I'm primarily concerned with the totems that have practically nothing on them. You've been over the entire map many times, do you not see them?

These players are already behind. Look at players like Rambo, he is missing a lot of the new recipes, stat and skill gains are much easier now. No one is saying that's a problem. The problem is when the devs promise you something, and you make choices based on them. They shouldnt change it because you cant take 20mins to find a spot for a totem.

I'm glad no one is saying falling behind is a problem, because that is the very least one can expect as a result of leaving the game. I am not suggesting a ninja totem decay without telling anyone. I am merely suggesting that advertising with the hopes of bringing in masses when decay has not been deployed and no starting date set, but expected to take six months... I'm suggesting that may, just may, be a bad idea.

New areas are not going to help these totem issues, sure they will help for a while but same ole problem will come right back. Why not have a whole zone for each player? I mean where is the limit going to be? Ive seen huge areas with 0 totems. With good resources and great views.

Look at games like UO where housing placement was locked up. If you come into the game 6 months late, you shouldn't expect to have the best piece of land there is, you have to wait your turn or wait for new areas to open up WHEN THEY ARE READY (Ready isn't just graphics and terrain in the game either, ready is when the game is ready for it, heck if it were "ready" because of that we would have 10x the size of the map we do now).

Sure, new land when the population of the game warrants it. That makes sense to me. However, I don't believe the current number of dead totems is healthy for a large and sudden influx of new players which would be the point of advertising.

In my first post, I proposed the opening of new lands as an alternative to cleaning up dead and empty totems should people who have stopped their subscriptions believe they are entitled to not having sensible repercussions.

Yes, joining a game 6 months in, one would expect there to be less room. Leaving a game for 6 months, I continue to contend it is reasonable to believe one would lose the real estate to currently active players given limited resources. I believe this is particularly true of people who were in one day to drop a totem on land they wanted to lock up. I don't believe that to be a sensible way to manage things, which is why I'm saying it.

Still waiting on the "Good spot" to be defined. So I can find some, and show how easy they are to find.

The definition is subjective and not necessary in the larger context of the discussion. I think introducing that for debate would detract from the initial viewpoint I sought to put forth. I am trying to stay on that topic as best I can.

I am not at all saying that anything HAS to be one way or the other. I'm not in a position to do such a thing. I'm merely pointing something out, giving feedback I felt was important to mention in light of plans to advertise. I would have been remiss to sit in silence.

[MrDDT]

I was saying that if I got an email today saying my account will be purged due to inactivity, I would make an informed decision based on this new information. That's what I would personally do, maybe I'm strange.

I'm primarily concerned with the totems that have practically nothing on them. You've been over the entire map many times, do you not see them?

But you knew before you went inactive that going inactive they would purge accounts due to inactivity. If they were to say "We wont purge inactive accounts for a year" then they purge them after 3 months you might have point, but they dont I wonder why? Maybe because they stand behind what they say?

Yes many of them dont have much done on them. Heck many people move 3 or 4 times before they find a spot they like. I'm not sure what that matters. Are you going to make the choice which totems get to stay or go?

I'm glad no one is saying falling behind is a problem, because that is the very least one can expect as a result of leaving the game. I am not suggesting a ninja totem decay without telling anyone. I am merely suggesting that advertising with the hopes of bringing in masses when decay has not been deployed and no starting date set, but expected to take six months... I'm suggesting that may, just may, be a bad idea.

I also think its a bad idea, however, what other choices do they have? They made promises in my cases. Maybe come up with a better idea not one that's as bad or worse.

Sure, new land when the population of the game warrants it. That makes sense to me. However, I don't believe the current number of dead totems is healthy for a large and sudden influx of new players which would be the point of advertising.

I think having no advertising isnt healthy either, nor do I believe that spreading people out so people log in and go "Hey where is everyone" like they do now is good either. Try playing the game, and maybe doing some trading. Oh you have and you were upset about it and you only had to travel 3 zones. Just think of going 20 to play with a friend. Good luck with that.

In my first post, I proposed the opening of new lands as an alternative to cleaning up dead and empty totems should people who have stopped their subscriptions believe they are entitled to not having sensible repercussions.

You mean the people that were TOLD there totems were safe and wouldnt just decay away while they were still adding content?

Yes, joining a game 6 months in, one would expect there to be less room. Leaving a game for 6 months, I continue to contend it is reasonable to believe one would lose the real estate to currently active players given limited resources. I believe this is particularly true of people who were in one day to drop a totem on land they wanted to lock up. I don't believe that to be a sensible way to manage things, which is why I'm saying it.

Why isnt it sensible? There is still lots of land out there for the taking. Should we open up new lands each time a player wants it? Or a few players like you and Jadiza cant find a "good" place?
Maybe do what other people have done, contact the owners of the totems see if they will be willing to sell the land to you, or move away. I did that, worked out great.

The definition is subjective and not necessary in the larger context of the discussion. I think introducing that for debate would detract from the initial viewpoint I sought to put forth. I am trying to stay on that topic as best I can.

I am not at all saying that anything HAS to be one way or the other. I'm not in a position to do such a thing. I'm merely pointing something out, giving feedback I felt was important to mention in light of plans to advertise. I would have been remiss to sit in silence.

With this comment here "The one thing that keeps me out though, and the one reason I can't see fit to make a donation yet, is the lack of open country suitable to my needs." and Jadiza's comment about it, you bring it up. So now you saying its not part of it or are you?

[Book]

Not part of what exactly?

You do remember seeing me in game earlier right?

I joined back up to make an honest go of it and see if I feel differently. Love many of the changes.

Stand by my assessment on the dead totems being a problem.

Get over it. I'm sure nothing will be done to upset your little friends just because of something I say.

[Jadzia]

People are forced to live as hermits almost right now because there are so few people playing. If you are talking about living far from people that will NEVER be fixed. You can open up new lands and nothing is stopping me from moving in next door to people.

I'm not going to get involved with a word debate with you, Ive shown many times how you have been wrong over and over. You say things like well I didnt mean it like that, when I do show proof. Go look it up. Either way its meaningless what you say for it as the proof has been shown time and time again.
Jordi has change the game completely in many different ways, why do you think so many have left and said just that? There is no debate to this.

Adding new areas are not done. Just as archery isnt done. Adding new areas is just partly done there is still more to do with it. Heck just adding a simple thing isnt even done and could crash the server. It takes time and effort away from other things.
Right now players can be on their own easy just goto one of the edges of the map, no one will even see them. Heck players are upset because they have been talking in /s for days and no one even replies. So please take that elsewhere and try playing the game a bit more.

What is a good spot? I can find one right now. Just tell me what do you classify as "good"?

So (of course) you can't find any proof to support your statement. No wonder.

What is a good spot for me ?
A nice landscape, water really close (ideally terraformable ), a big junkpile nearby, trees nearby,a flat land ( the flat land size should be like 3 times of a homestead size), no other totems in visible distance, especially no big tribes in visible distance (I'm not fond of staring at huge fortresses all day long).
There you go. I don't want to discuss my taste with you, so please don't comment on my requirements. This is that means a good spot for me, if you know a free one I'll be more than happy to check it out. There are many of them out there which would fit my description but all of them are taken.

And if you are soooo concerned about kept promises ( a promise that alread has been kept in a way, players who left the game got 8 months and their totems are still there) then why are you not concerned about keeping the promise of opening up new lands in June ? Well actually it was promised for April, so they are in 8 months delay already.

[MrDDT]

You know the visible distance you can see over 2 zones right? So pretty much you want a 3 zone cleared area just for you?

Good luck with that. So if they open up 50 new zones about 5 people will be able to place the way you like it. So every 5 new players they would have to know up 5 new zones. You just made my whole point thank you.

[NorCalGooey]

Yeah Jadzia that's not happening. And what happens when someone moves in next to you? Are you going to ask for more zones to be opened up because once again you can't find a completely remote area with all the best resources, water and terrain? There's a reason that you won't be able to be the only one near such a great spot. Just have to deal with it or don't play.

[Jadzia]

Did they change the visibility distance ? Earlier I couldn't see buildings from a not very big distance...definitely inside 1 zone. If I looked down from a platou I couldn't see the buildings down at the beach. When I ran closer the buildings popped out.

DDT, I didn't say I want to be alone in a 3 zones distance. I just don't want to see my neighbours' huge fortresses. If trees or landscape hides them thats fine.
I'm waiting for your reply for my question about keeping promises of new lands.

Norcal, you are right, I wouldn't like a big tribe in my close neighbourhood. To avoid this problem I would pick a spot which is not proper for a big tribe. I have no problem with a homestead neighbour, since they don't build huge structures. If a homestead player would drop his/her totem too close to mine I'd try to convince him to go a bit further....by offering some advantages if he is willing to. If he is not, I have to live with it, but as I said homestead totems doesn't mean a big problem.

[MrDDT]

No they didnt change it, I didnt say 3 zones in 1 direction.

Im saying you can see all the zones around you so you would have a huge grid of zones no one can place in or you wont like it.

Answer to your question is that I do think they should deliver what they promise, however, I dont think at the cost of other promises. You know like the ones they said first? Like FFA PVP? Or Full looting? Mutants? These are long before the extra zone issue.
Hech even archery? Why isnt there archery before these extra zones?

Jadiza so you are now saying if you are first in the area you ok with other totems near you? Because there are areas just like you are talking about with small totems. Problem is you keep changing what you want. There is no way they can fix it to that, even your own choice doesnt fit. Heck if you drop a totem, and a large tribe comes there you are saying you are going to be upset. What are you going to do then? Ask for more zones so you can be first again? Then when someone drops a totem you want more zone? (Notice the circle?)