Allow tribes to expand please.

[fatboy21007]

i like jadzia's idea. its like all other games. You want more land work for it. But Look people, Nobody wants a friggin job in a game to keep what they worked hard on. Least with her idea you keep things tough while allows people to upgrade land. As it stand people will spend a good 6 months- year on stuff in this game and xsyon is addin new stuff in here ever friggin month. Also lands will be expanding soon which is X4 times the size of the current game zones, In dumb dumb terms, thats fuckin huge. Which means if u wanna bitch bout land, well dont, will be a ass ton of it everywhere. Also i want you all to know this, and remember it, it has been said since the begining. This game isnt gonna cater to a giant playerbase, 100-500 max is his aims. He wants a certain audence here. Theirfore you wont be seeing 1k-3124892384243kkk people ingame. If ya dont like well donno what to tell ya.

I seen alot of indy companies doin this latley as some folks in this world just enjoy making a game so that others likem can enjoy it also. So stop trying to turn xsyon into a second job, this game will never hold full active tribes that long, and the pop will always go up n down, tribes will fill up and go inactive n repeat. Nothing we can do about it, Again this is the specific audience being targeted :-P. Theirs my 2 cents, cant deny it ethier, all true stuff.

[MrDDT]

No. The basic land should be free (like a homestead area, and the first expansions should be very easy to get for an 80 members tribe. They wouldn't have to wait for weeks to get a totem, they would get it instantly. They would have to work for weeks or months if they wanted to expand their land into a really big one.

Holding the land wouldn't cost anything, but to get it would. The bigger the land the bigger the price. It shouldn't be easy.

So you are upset because people are tying up lands now, but you will be ok with people tying up more land later as long as they put down some resources for it?

Very few people will be happy with a homestead. If you think there is a problem now (which I would think most people do) wait til 1 person can hold onto 200m radius areas forever. Heck I can see it now "There is no good places, I cant place my 200m totem"

I'm ok with the cost of lands, but you are asking 80+ people to wait long amounts of time (cant be short according to you), to place a totem. If its smaller amounts, then you have fear of no room at all for anyone.

I'm sure there is more of a middle ground. But what would it do? You are asking people to resource grind for first totems which have to be sorta hard else you run out of room. I see no reason to have that grind but not an upkeep grind.
IMO I think you should have both, and make both smaller. Ive already posted this idea. Most people agree with it. 22+ vs 2.
http://www.xsyon.com/forum/project.php?issueid=1230

My worry is that with your idea, that larger tribes will hold huge areas many 200m totems. Plus smaller players will feel like they need to start off with a large area. Leaving few areas. Then people get upset, for 2 reasons. 1) No areas, and 2) Huge amount of resources perceived to be needed to make a totem.
Sure they can get the "free" one. But really who is going to want to settle with a toy plane for free when they can get a 747 jumbo jet?

[Jadzia]

So you are upset because people are tying up lands now, but you will be ok with people tying up more land later as long as they put down some resources for it?

Very few people will be happy with a homestead. If you think there is a problem now (which I would think most people do) wait til 1 person can hold onto 200m radius areas forever. Heck I can see it now "There is no good places, I cant place my 200m totem"

I'm ok with the cost of lands, but you are asking 80+ people to wait long amounts of time (cant be short according to you), to place a totem. If its smaller amounts, then you have fear of no room at all for anyone.

I'm not upset at all. I'm more than happy to see occupied lands by active people. My problem is to see lands occupied by players who have been totally inactive since April.
We don't have problems with the active tribes' lands. Everyone has problems with the inactive ones.

You don't understand what I'm saying ? Anyone could place a totem instantly. Again, instantly. Then he/they could expand it step by step to the size they want. And we have plenty of room even now (if they removed the inactive totems that is) and we will have a huge land after the launch of the new zones. If only active players can hold lands then there is no problem with lack of room.

Say I'd like a 747 jumbo jet as well. But I can only afford a toy plane. So I don't really have an option to own a jumbo, it will be the same in game.

[MrDDT]

I'm not upset at all. I'm more than happy to see occupied lands by active people. My problem is to see lands occupied by players who have been totally inactive since April.
We don't have problems with the active tribes' lands. Everyone has problems with the inactive ones.

You don't understand what I'm saying ? Anyone could place a totem instantly. Again, instantly. Then he/they could expand it step by step to the size they want. And we have plenty of room even now (if they removed the inactive totems that is) and we will have a huge land after the launch of the new zones. If only active players can hold lands then there is no problem with lack of room.

Say I'd like a 747 jumbo jet as well. But I can only afford a toy plane. So I don't really have an option to own a jumbo, it will be the same in game.

Sorry to confuse words on you, problem to me = upset. Else there wouldnt be a problem.

If every player in the game had a 200m radius totem with an active account, you would have more "problems" than you do now.
If placed perfectly you would only have room for just over 800 totems. That's not many, and many locations (over 1/3 of the map) cant have a totem. So you cut that down by 1/3 just from the lake.
You are down to 533 totems.
Now you factor in other issues like people not perfectly placing totems, and founders isle etc. You are well under 400 people.

See the problem?

Let me guess, we need more zones per 400 people that sign up? Haha

[banden]

i like jadzia's idea. its like all other games. You want more land work for it. But Look people, Nobody wants a friggin job in a game to keep what they worked hard on. Least with her idea you keep things tough while allows people to upgrade land. As it stand people will spend a good 6 months- year on stuff in this game and xsyon is addin new stuff in here ever friggin month. Also lands will be expanding soon which is X4 times the size of the current game zones, In dumb dumb terms, thats fuckin huge. Which means if u wanna bitch bout land, well dont, will be a ass ton of it everywhere. Also i want you all to know this, and remember it, it has been said since the begining. This game isnt gonna cater to a giant playerbase, 100-500 max is his aims. He wants a certain audence here. Theirfore you wont be seeing 1k-3124892384243kkk people ingame. If ya dont like well donno what to tell ya.

I seen alot of indy companies doin this latley as some folks in this world just enjoy making a game so that others likem can enjoy it also. So stop trying to turn xsyon into a second job, this game will never hold full active tribes that long, and the pop will always go up n down, tribes will fill up and go inactive n repeat. Nothing we can do about it, Again this is the specific audience being targeted :-P. Theirs my 2 cents, cant deny it ethier, all true stuff.

Id like a link to where he says how many people he want. I sure havent seen him say anything like that, and if he did then incidently hes also wrong to aim for that. Lets be clear that currently 50 people is about as many people online at one time as we can get, even with 50 people you can go into the wilderness and never see a soul, when I go out today, the only people I will see is people I know live there and is online, it feels very empty and it doesnt feel very MMO. Lets be clear that the world is not crowded by people right now, its crowded by totems. So the area we can get will be quadropled (because of some people whos been pressing to get it now, this will happen sooner than good is) even if we get 8 times as many old/new players into game as we have now, this massive area will still feel quite empty. Now add in the ability to drop a bigger totem for a one time amount of materials that doesnt decay. Homesteads can suddenly control 4 times as much area as now and just like at launch a lot of people who started solo back then decide to do it again because its so easy, so they grind the "reasonable amount of mats" it takes to get a totem and lets say they dont mind grinding the mats for a big totem so they now have a 200m radius tribe land... and then they decide that they didnt really want to play it anyway... or they cant afford the sub... or they have studies to attend... whatever. What is going to make that totem go away? If it doesnt decay eventually, how is this situation any different than now? Inactive people should not be able to hold territory, we agree on that... I think.

Jadzia, what would even make the current totems go away? If there is no decay? My standpoint is that over enough time, everthing should decay if not maintained.

So you dont like the idea that you have to grind for upkeep? Incidently noone is saying that grinding items for upkeep is the only way to go. Lets say for example that you have to pray at your totem(s) to maintain them. The bottomline here is that totems have to be able to decay or we will end up right back here in a year or two.

Added after 24 minutes:

Actually I don't agree with that. I don't think it should be based on numbers in any way. It should be based purely on effort and activity. Even a solo players should be able to get the most land even thought it would take 2 years for him. Still, the opportunity should be there. Dedication and effort should pay off, not numbers. That's only my opinion of course.

That was what I was saying, well mostly. Active people should be able to take more land than less active people and inactive people shouldnt be able to hold land, period.

People can't just drop a totem and go inactive. If they don't pay the subscription fee their totem would decay fast. A subscribed player is not inactive imo...perhaps he can't play due to real life issues, but shows his dedication toward the game by paying the sub. That person should have his totem and area saved.

I feel very strongly that decay should not be tied to paying your subscription fee. An upkeep system would work better.

My main problem with an upkeep is that it can very easily become a daily chore and causes problems when someone can't play for 1-2 months but still pays the sub. A high upkeep is a nightmare and kills the fun of the game.

I doesnt necessarily have to be items for upkeep. The main thing is that totems have to be maintained or they will decay.

[Shaggy]

Here's my two cents:

Seems like many people are in agreement that totems should require upkeep to maintain a certain size, with that being balanced with the amount of players it should reasonably take to produce the costs of upkeep. Hopefully if a smaller more hardcore tribe wanted to swing it they could get by with squeezing some extra upkeep out of a smaller amount of players.

My idea for upkeep is that it should be based on resource distribution. Some resources are more prominent in certain areas than others, right? Make a totem generate an upkeep "cost" on it's own based on the exact location where the totem was placed and what resources are prominent enough nearby and within reasonable exploration distance. Maybe the distance from the totem that the algorithm uses to develop a list of potential resources for upkeep could also scale with the number of players? That way larger tribes might have to travel farther to get their upkeep costs in order (one would expect a larger tribe to be able to reach farther). Whether that's one specific resource or a certain type of resources (various STEEL scrap metal vs nails for example) would be something lots of testing and careful thought should be able to sort out. Maybe the totem should have an upkeep "deadline" once a week/bimonthly/month/whatever based on the current size. If the players put in a surplus of that upkeep continuously over time, the radius should grow, as well as the upkeep cost. If the deadline is not met that month, then the next month is the decay month where the decay process begins to take place. After this second month of not maintaining the cost of upkeep, the totem should be removed and all belongings within go up for grabs. Larger tribes should have their decay time scaled *SLIGHTLY* higher but not by much (not at a 1:1 ratio by any means).

I think a system like this would encourage a tribe to stay active to hold their size and location. Just think of the possibilities... say large tribe A wants to overtake large tribe B's area with an expansion totem. Tribe A starts attacking carts and players carrying resources back to tribe B in an effort so shut them off from resources needed for upkeep. I think the radius would need to cap out at a certain point based on the number of players, but that cap should certainly be higher than it is now to give those who wish to put more time into such a thing a reason to do so. Hopefully you guys get what I'm trying to say, but who knows..... I have been going through season 2 of Walking Dead for the last 4 or so hours so I'm a little tired =P

[inhabit]

My worry from the whole upkeep/buying land thing is that will it become just another tedious task, that diverts you away from actually playing the game you want to be playing whether that be, PvP, crafting, terraforming etc.

I dont think anyone has suggested numbers/volumes of material or how many minutes praying would be adequate to keep decay away.
I dont have the answers to this but what proportion of your gaming time are you expecting players to give up to this?

[Shaggy]

That I have no idea.... too early/late for that sort of thinking :P It shouldn't be a huge time sink but they should definitely have to work for it.

[Derek]

My worry from the whole upkeep/buying land thing is that will it become just another tedious task, that diverts you away from actually playing the game you want to be playing whether that be, PvP, crafting, terraforming etc.

I dont think anyone has suggested numbers/volumes of material or how many minutes praying would be adequate to keep decay away.
I dont have the answers to this but what proportion of your gaming time are you expecting players to give up to this?

I agree. I just don't want this to be another task that takes up a good portion of my gaming time. I've already got to put up with this ridiculous energy drain rates where resting takes up 25% of my gaming time. Then you add this upkeep task and now I'm probably up to 40-50% of my gaming time spent resting and doing chores. fun...

This is where NPC hirelings would work great. You get few NPC's to gather materials and repair/upkeep you lands while you craft/pvp/build or whatever you think is fun. To keep it balanced these NPC's can be killed by other players while out gathering. There could be a cooldown in place for when they will respawn at your totem. You could task members of your tribe to patrol the area and protect the NPC workers. Just a thought.

This actually solves the issue with inactives and upkeep. If you don't log in, you can't direct your workers to gather and repair.

[banden]

My worry from the whole upkeep/buying land thing is that will it become just another tedious task, that diverts you away from actually playing the game you want to be playing whether that be, PvP, crafting, terraforming etc.

I dont think anyone has suggested numbers/volumes of material or how many minutes praying would be adequate to keep decay away.
I dont have the answers to this but what proportion of your gaming time are you expecting players to give up to this?

Leveling the crafts in this game is allready rather tedious so I agree that making people craft more stuff to upkeep totems would be bad, but this is more because crafting is tedious, thats a different issue, there are other threads for that . At present we craft a lot items just because we get skillups for them right?

I had this idea a while back that totems could be fueled by offering crafted items at the totem. How much upkeep the totem would recieve would be determined by the quantity of materials used and the quality of the finished item.

upkeep for Quality:
Junk= 0
poor= 0.5
low= 1
Moderate = 2
High = 4
Very high = 6
Master = 8

Upkeep for quantity
1 mat = 1
2 mat = 2
3 mat = 4

This is a very rough guestimate of what would work, I really have idea how much item 1 up keep should give you. But lets do a thought experiment ok?

Its monday and the upkeep on my totems are running out, damn... So i have to go get some items I can use for offerings so i can keep them going. So I go grab my cart and I have 2 possible ways of getting the stuff I need, I could go craft or I could down to a trade hub and barter for it. Trading would be costly and i dont have a alot to trade with so I decide I want to craft. Now again I have some choices, I could go gather stone to use for bricks or I could go gather a vider variety of materials to make cloth items or leather or tools. I have pretty good resource and masonry skills so I decide to make bricks allthough I would get more upkeep for my time out of getting cloth items because they use larger quantities of materials but my skills in cloth arent so good so the quality of the finished item would be a lot lower than the bricks.

Upkeep for 1 very high quality brick: 6+1= 7
Upkeep for 1 low quality cloth item with 3 mat: 1+4= 5

Its important for me to make absolutely clear that this system is not supposed to be another tedious job. Lets say you have to use 1-2 hours every week to make sure all your totems are fueled and this would even be a team effort for larger tribes, so some times you might not even need to worry about it.