Feedback Request: Upgrade Tribe 2012-03-15

[GuideRaguel]

Hello Xsyon Citizens!

The Test Server is up for Public testing. We are testing a revised Tribe upgrading system.Tribes can now upgrade from Homestead to Band to Clan to Tribe as members are added. Tribes will downgrade as usual if members are removed.

When a new Tribe is created, it will require placement at maximum distance from nearby Tribes, based on the starting tribe type of the new Tribe. (This is the same as what is already in place on the Main Server).

As a Tribe upgrades, its radius will increase ONLY if it is not blocked by the CURRENT radii of nearby Tribes. This will allow smaller Tribesto grow into unclaimed nearby territory and potentially block the full growth of nearby Tribes.

The Totem / Town information panel now displays the current Tribe type and radius at the top of the panel.

We will be testing and asking for feedback on this system (in the Developer Zone) over the weekend.

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Hello everyone,

We would very much like your feedback regarding this.

Please let us know if there are any issues with the system.
And you can also post your suggestions here for this feature.

Thank you.

[fatboy21007]

this has been a VERY VERY long asked for feature, Now if we can get the ability to remove and move* tribe totems without disbandin and we got a perfect setup.

[Willowhawk]

this has been a VERY VERY long asked for feature, Now if we can get the ability to remove tribe totems without disbandin and we got a perfect setup.

Fatboy did you mean "Move tribe totems" rather than remove? because that was my first thought too. We can expand now, but only in the current area and that is going to put one of our tribe boundaries out over the cliff edge.

[MrDDT]

Fatboy did you mean "Move tribe totems" rather than remove? because that was my first thought too. We can expand now, but only in the current area and that is going to put one of our tribe boundaries out over the cliff edge.

He means pick up a totem and replace it without dropping everyone out of the tribe.

[Willowhawk]

He means pick up a totem and replace it without dropping everyone out of the tribe.

As your usual you state the obvious. I was referring to the action to "Move a totem" Example; Right click on totem, click "Move" Maybe an action something like architecture buildings, Or did he mean "Remove Totem" as in disband without losing members, then move half way across map and then "Place Totem". The first scenario should be easy to do, the second scenario would mean the ability to abandon your place (mess and all) without losing tribe members and start over in a new place.

[brando]

Are we sure this is the best way to handle totem expansion? This proposed system would allow another tribe to grief a growing tribe by placing homesteads all around them. Is there any thought to an alternate? I understand the desire to protect smaller homesteads, but this could end up alienating larger tribes. I know there is always a fear of zerg tribes taking over everything, but could there be certain distances that scale back as the larger tribe expands? For example, up to 100 members a totem expands unhindered, but then as it hits smaller totems and homesteads it takes a penalty to its growth? The number is just an example. Also, is there any thought to a larger totem engulfing a smaller one? It wouldn't totally kill the smaller totem's claim, but it would surround it? Any thoughts?

[KeithStone]

Are we sure this is the best way to handle totem expansion? This proposed system would allow another tribe to grief a growing tribe by placing homesteads all around them. Is there any thought to an alternate? I understand the desire to protect smaller homesteads, but this could end up alienating larger tribes. I know there is always a fear of zerg tribes taking over everything, but could there be certain distances that scale back as the larger tribe expands? For example, up to 100 members a totem expands unhindered, but then as it hits smaller totems and homesteads it takes a penalty to its growth? The number is just an example. Also, is there any thought to a larger totem engulfing a smaller one? It wouldn't totally kill the smaller totem's claim, but it would surround it? Any thoughts?

I agree with this, people could use alts (doesn't even have to be alts, just people that decide for whatever reason they want to do it) to grief larger tribes and block their expansion. Without the ability to conquer someones totem then that is a bad idea imo.

to the last part of what you said, you won't be able to do that and is how players could grief tribes and block their growth.

[Xsyon]

This proposed system would allow another tribe to grief a growing tribe by placing homesteads all around them.

It wouldn't be so easy.

Here is an example of how this system works:

Tribe A has 20 members
- Current status is Tribe
- Current radius is 110 m
- Maximum growth radius is 200 m

Tribe B is a single player placing a Totem
- Current status is Homestead
- Current radius is 25 m
- Maximum growth radius, before upgrading, is 25 m

Tribe B's new Totem can only be placed outside of Tribe A's MAX GROWTH radius.

So Tribe B places a Totem at the closest point to Tribe A (225 m Tribe center to Tribe center)
Tribe B would need to add and keep 5 more members to upgrade to Band and start to limit Tribe A's maximum size.

The key element here is that a new Tribe can't be placed to limit another tribe's growth. It can only GROW to limit another tribe's growth.

We are considering other options.

- Allowing tribes to overlap or engulf a smaller Tribe within a larger Tribe is not an option. This would just complicate things too much and allow for additional griefing situations (for example a larger Tribe building a wall around an engulfed Homestead).

Option 1: Current Option
Tribes can upgrade type based on member count, unimpeded.
Tribes can grow in radius as long they are not impeded by another Tribe's CURRENT radius.

Option 2: Alternate Option
Tribes can upgrade type based on member count, unimpeded.
Tribes can grow in radius as long they are not impeded by another Tribe's MAXIMUM GROWTH radius.

This would prevent smaller new Tribes from inhibiting the radius growth of any Tribes currently at Tribe status. However, this would significantly reduce the options for growing Tribes to expand.

We could always start with Option 2 and switch to Option 1 in the future. The reverse (switching from Option 1 to 2) would cause more complications.

Feedback on both Options is greatly appreciated!

[MrDDT]

IMO they all should be option #2. If any tribe is currently not fitting into option #2, they should hold the max they can at where current tribe radius are.

All new totems would have to respect a 200m radius area, unless they choose a no grow option. (So homesteads can band in a city like)

Current totems, would hold the max radius they can until it bumps into another totem max radius. Problem with this is who gets what radius?
Any new totems placed would check max radius of all totems (even if they are not using that radius).


I would rather have a system removed from # of players and use resources. Tribes buy the radius they want. If they cant afford that radius, they lose it.
Someone trying to "grief" another tribe would have to upkeep a totem just to grief, it wouldnt fix griefing with totem problems but it would limit it down greatly. I dont see any system fixing griefing totems as they are protected. Who is to say what a griefing totem is really. Someone could just like that spot and prevent people from growing.

Some system where players need to buy and upkeep totems is what is really needed. That way players can hold the land they want too, based on the cost they can afford, not in "theory" of what they can grow too.


For a new player working for a totem shouldnt be freely given. They should want to stay near founders isle for a while to learn the ropes and be safe. Then after they have build up some skills and resources think about a totem placement.
New players jumping into the world seem to always drop a totem, campfire, and basket and if they quit, its going to be there forever, even under the new system its going to be there for months.
All with no cost to the new players, or totem droppers.
One top of that, they have to place a totem (or feel like they have too) because of where they respawn.

Anyways, if you do it by "max" radius, there will be very few places to place a totem.

[znaiika]

When placing a totem, have three choices: Homestead, clan and tribe, if someone want to place tribe totem? tribe totem checks for radius availability and what types of totems are around, if there is another tribe totem then maximum radius from both totems would be 400 meters, if a tribe totem locates near homestead totem then the radius should be 225 meters, and have radius for clan totem as well.
This is a simple solution and would not conflict with anyone.