Xsyon Trade Fairs

[MrDDT]

I think the system of the problem mostly comes from the lack of fast travel. Even making carts take say 1% of the normal weight (which is roughly 10x better than they are now) I dont see people using them to do trade fairs. Even if carts had zero weight, it would take 30+ mins to get to where the event fair would be. Problem lies IMO in most of a overall economy issue.

I think guides teleporting was helping the economy of most of the major pains, but also hurting its overall trade value. Overall travel times weights etc are major issues in this game as a whole.

I would say a rail system or something that is really fast at a cost would be the better way to do it. Maybe make it go around the lake with a few branches off (N, NE, E, SE, S, SW, W, NW) that head off into the mist. This system would allow people to move around the map giving trade new life, without the need for guides. It can even be a project that guides/players work together on to dig out and get resources to build it.

Another issue is carts and lake travel. The lake really is the fastest way to travel and you cant bring a cart through it. How hard would it to make a boat instead of a cart? Boat cant leave the water unless its empty and in back slot form, but it can hold say 2 or 3 baskets worth of goods at 5% of the normal weight or something.

Value of goods, local resources, rarity, time gathering, weight are the major issues and right now you have only a little from most and weight being the biggest factor.

[Riverspirit]

In my opinion, this will kill the trade fairs. It gives totally unfair advantage to the tribes that are on the lake near good roads. We would like to host a trade fair, but nobody will come all the way up to our place for it without teleports with the way carts currently work. If you could pull the cart anyplace you can run, just slower, maybe.. but you can't get up here without fighting the cart up at least one hill if you find the right path.

I don't agree that this is a good choice at all. It makes the game less fun, and I don't think people will go unless they are close.

[Riverspirit]

You must have been listening to 1 or 2 players then instead of the main playerbase.
I'm not looking for reality. I have reality every day. It's a game. What exactly does it hurt to continue with the teleporting to trade fairs until you get a system in place to allow us to travel to a trade fair on our own? There was obviously little to no thinking this through before implementing this change.

I agree, I think having tribes host them is a great idea, then we can make up fun events and give prizes and stuff. But don't take away the transportation when there is no easy way to travel.

[Deacon]

To be percetly honest...I would'nt trade bricks at a fair...I'd go to the area where the bricks were needed, and make them near their use source. I would take a cart with sufficient hammers and chizels with me, and fill the cart with bricks...AT the place where I was selling them......more like selling my brick making services to a tribe. But if you think traveling great distances with a cart loaded with extreme amounts of weight puts me off, when I feel the need to do it, or my tribe needs it done, then you dont know me.

[MrDDT]

In my opinion, this will kill the trade fairs. It gives totally unfair advantage to the tribes that are on the lake near good roads. We would like to host a trade fair, but nobody will come all the way up to our place for it without teleports with the way carts currently work. If you could pull the cart anyplace you can run, just slower, maybe.. but you can't get up here without fighting the cart up at least one hill if you find the right path.

I don't agree that this is a good choice at all. It makes the game less fun, and I don't think people will go unless they are close.

I totally agree, which is also why they should put resources near the mist area (away from the rail system) to promote people living there. Local rare resources that are worthwhile. This will promote both people living near the center (more player protected because more active players and mostly trade) and less people outside near the mist however more rare loot. Teleporting players is a temp fix and is horrid system for economy in game, and worse in an FFA PVP full looting game.

Also nothing is stopping a tribe from moving where they are to areas near the lake. Again this would be where upkeep would start to come into place as being a good idea to remove totems and stop people from locking down an area.

Fixing this isnt as simple as saying "Ok we will teleport people" or "Ok we are done teleporting people" there are many issues and aspects to economy and finding the right fix to this problem.

To be percetly honest...I would'nt trade bricks at a fair...I'd go to the area where the bricks were needed, and make them near their use source. I would take a cart full of hammers and chizels with me in a cart, and fill the cart with them...AT the place where I was selling them......more like selling my brick making services to a tribe. But if you think traveling great distances with a cart loaded with extreme amounts of weight puts me off, when I feel the need to do it, or my tribe needs it done, then you dont know me.

Totally agree Deacon you will have a few people doing that, but what you are asking is for people to go out of their way to make trade happen. If you are doing that extra work for making bricks its likely the value of what you are getting will be an issue later, so they will have to over pay just to get you to do all that extra work. Which now comes to play why wont they just make the bricks themselves because its pretty much just a time issue for bricks.

Also you have some people that will do things just because its how they do things, its unlikely its the normal or common thing to be happening. Worse is when you dont even have a safe spot for yourself NOR your cart/bricks.



Judarires,

I listed a fix that starts it of course there will be more to it but those issues you listed are not really "problems" they are just part of the game. Just because people can jack a cargo from point A to B doesnt make trade bad. You can use protections and use politics. EVE does this very nicely and its a fun very very working system.

About the currency being heavy, its not all that heavy. Problem is most times really dont have proper worth.

[MrDDT]

You can't even cook fish in-game and you're suggesting a rail network? Let's keep in mind this fix needs to come within the next year...

Those "issues" aren't "problems", they're just parts of the game that make long distance high volume/weight trade unfeasible.

Oh and please explain how you think this is in any way similar to EVE. That's absolutely ludicrous.

I fully agree that high supply (or volume) with weight make trade unfeasible in its current state. Doesnt mean it cant be fixed, and I'm not saying its easy to fix it. This is a major problem for a long time and needs to be looked at from the ground up.

EVE's a sandbox game with a system working just like I told you. I'm not really sure how you think its not similar. Is Xsyon similar to EVE's economy right now? Nope. I would like it to be closer to it, as I believe its a strong economy for a sandbox game. I also see ways of making Xsyon close to it. Starting with those things I listed.


Travel in Xsyon is a major issue. Lack of energy regen systems (resting is the only way, potions, buffs, healing stations etc).
Lack of a faster mode of travel other than sprinting which greatly effects your energy see above why that's a problem.
Weight of items and gear effecting your energy decay.
Lack of faster roads that are prebuild sure players can make the new faster roads but MANY issues with doing that on a larger scale.
No modes of travel with mounts or cars or planes or rail system, magical travel etc.

This travel and transportation issue needs to be addressed while also looking at limited local traded goods. (Much like EVE has). These limited local traded goods need to have and hold a value to players to want to have them and use them. Along with decay.

[inhabit]

Now hand carts if i remember (rightly or wrongly) were added to ease the mundane task of collecting and gathering resourses, and make building up your tribe lands and leveling up skills less of a chore? For this they have served their purpose well.
We can now carry upto 15-20 long logs/leather and grass stacks etc.............and people are still complaining, we could only carry 1 before!!!! this like the Devs im surprised at i think cart encumberance is fine and I personally dont have issues with it.
Based on the above we can all now build/grind and get to endgame boredom 15x20times quicker than before? (exaggeration i know but indicates my point)

The way most of you are talking seems to be based on trading in bulk, is the game really at that point yet with player base being so low?
General travel terrain issues, energy drain/regeneration rates, small player base, lack of need for an item..plus more all add to the travel problem and have been there since day 1, generally when i trade in game i run with no cart for a specific item like recipes/supreme axe/cart etc no bulk buying and i dont need a trade fair to do this and dont take part in trade fairs for this reason, I dont need to wait for a specific day for an item.

Is fixing trade fairs really a priority right now? opinions will vary, but i would like to see better more complete entertaining content first personally.

[MrDDT]

Now hand carts if i remember (rightly or wrongly) were added to ease the mundane task of collecting and gathering resourses, and make building up your tribe lands and leveling up skills less of a chore? For this they have served their purpose well.
We can now carry upto 15-20 long logs/leather and grass stacks etc.............and people are still complaining, we could only carry 1 before!!!! this like the Devs im surprised at i think cart encumberance is fine and I personally dont have issues with it.
Based on the above we can all now build/grind and get to endgame boredom 15x20times quicker than before? (exaggeration i know but indicates my point)

The way most of you are talking seems to be based on trading in bulk, is the game really at that point yet with player base being so low?
General travel terrain issues, energy drain/regeneration rates, small player base, lack of need for an item..plus more all add to the travel problem and have been there since day 1, generally when i trade in game i run with no cart for a specific item like recipes/supreme axe/cart etc no bulk buying and i dont need a trade fair to do this and dont take part in trade fairs for this reason, I dont need to wait for a specific day for an item.

Is fixing trade fairs really a priority right now? opinions will vary, but i would like to see better more complete entertaining content first personally.

When I play other sandbox games, I trade 1000s of times a day. How many times do you trade a day when you play in Xsyon? 2 times a day would be a lot in my book if someone were doing this right now in Xsyon. I would say the avg player is trading 2 times a week.

[inhabit]

Not sure if i get what your trying to say DDT current system cant cope with 1000 trades a day? Then yes i agree needs lots of improvement to acheive this.

But what im saying is are we actually at a point where this needs the devs main focus? Then no is my opinion. The population is to low and foucus shoukd be on adding other features to retain new players.


The way i see it working is as populatuon expands players will have others close by and local trade markets will begin to appear rather than what we have now.

Also if they are adding death penalties shortly they cannot continue to warp players to fairs which i why they have possibly started this thread.

[Qwerty]

All they have to do for now is at least make encumbrance issue a lot easier with using carts and how to carry additional carts to market (Like carts being represented similar to the interceptor key for slot storage found in another famous post apocalyptic mmo game.). Simple solutions for now. Meanwhile everyone that is in a large enough tribe needs to build some sort of trade centre and be able to rent out stall space to local homesteaders. Xsyon needs to sort out the real estate patch for renting out with the permissions use and revamp carts accordingly in the very near future.

I like the idea for converting carts into temporary stalls where goods are seen by the customer which means you could be a traveling salesman and have a one man trade fair anywhere

Other projects if allowed with totem extensions like road improvement, bridges and even railways (After scrap craft & black smithing.) can be a large community project for the future. this may even be a source of pvp on who controls the tolls

Boats are well overdue and should be in the game now, period.

Meanwhile, teleports to trade fairs should remain until the community have the required tools in the game to take over the trading properly.

Degradation is also needed for some products like carts to have a sustainable market. It seems only armour, tools and weapons have this quality and this is another time bomb problem coming up in the very near future.

Let's have a proper economic mechanisms and eventually something to fight over which is what war is all about. That's how you keep players in the game. The game should be about fun and not frustration due to the impossibility to do everyday chores like transportation.