Feedback Request: Creature AI 2012-07-05

[Snakepit]

Revenants i think to strong because there range of hitting is more without a weapon than me with a weapon. When i try to run up to them and hit and run away the x button have to be pressed again after the hit. That take to much time to get out of the way. The revenants will always hit back. At the moment they revenants grow fast and are around 200 and 350 hp. For one player, starter or advanced it isnt possible to kill one. IF the revenants stay strong as they are now they will bring players together because you need around 4 players to kill one. What do we get back when we kill one? You can make a choice that smaller animals are for solo kills and revenants only can be killed by a group of players. How bad this is for solo players how much it will boost the collaboration in xsyon. And i think thats what we need at the moment. In RL people get a band with each other because the need to work together.

So revenants are to strong if the intention is that they can be killed by one player. The are probably good when they are a group activitie.

Some other think. The revenats walk through a closed door.
I like that they much bigger then player toons
The range they walk is good. I am happy when they walk away from the camp and in the meanwhile i can loot the bins in there camp.

[MrDDT]

Revenants i think to strong because there range of hitting is more without a weapon than me with a weapon. When i try to run up to them and hit and run away the x button have to be pressed again after the hit. That take to much time to get out of the way. The revenants will always hit back. At the moment they revenants grow fast and are around 200 and 350 hp. For one player, starter or advanced it isnt possible to kill one. IF the revenants stay strong as they are now they will bring players together because you need around 4 players to kill one. What do we get back when we kill one? You can make a choice that smaller animals are for solo kills and revenants only can be killed by a group of players. How bad this is for solo players how much it will boost the collaboration in xsyon. And i think thats what we need at the moment. In RL people get a band with each other because the need to work together.

So revenants are to strong if the intention is that they can be killed by one player. The are probably good when they are a group activitie.

Some other think. The revenats walk through a closed door.
I like that they much bigger then player toons
The range they walk is good. I am happy when they walk away from the camp and in the meanwhile i can loot the bins in there camp.

Good points you bring up.

Is the intent to make Revs a group action?

Why was the # of Revs decreased but the HP increased. I think it should be the other way around.
Make their HP like 50, but have like 10 per totem. It was a lot more fun with many Revs that were easier than it was with just 1 with a lot of HP.

Also their "leash" range should be a lot shorter to the totems IMO, almost like they are protectors. People really shouldnt be able to pull them away to loot the bins.

[Tesla]

I think they are gaining hp exponentially as they kill players just like some muntants were doing before they were turned off. Wish I could figure out that little trick for myself, hehe. This makes them way too powerful and I would guess not drop anything more special than the low hp revs. BTW, I haven't even been able to loot any of them. If the monster revs dropped something special, I would take the time to organize a group. If they just have the same loot as the rest of the pack, why bother. They may just kill me and get even stronger.

Like mentioned above, if they are tied to their home totem, I may have a chance to outrun a group of them. That hasn't worked so far as there is always more of them waiting around the bend. So if I manage to clear a few out to look through some bins, bam, there they are again in no time. Increase the respawn timer please.

New players are royaly screwed here. Would you consider opening up some of the map to offer those that choose to start there some relative safety?

[Xsyon]

Thanks for the feedback so far.

The fast respawn of revenants is just for testing the system. The range of power is also set from lowest to highest and will be adjusted. I will do a new revenant 'first spawn' after making some adjustments.

[Xsyon]

The Test Server is restarting and will be up at roughly 8:40 PM PST

These adjustments were made to Revenants:
- Base damage is much lower for unarmed attacks. Armed attacks will match human armed attacks + additional power based on times in combat.
- Strength of revenants ranges from 50 to 100 and this affects their attack power.
- Revenants stay closer to their haunted totem.
- Revenants respawn after 1 game day (They were set quick for testing).
- Bug with revenants not being lootable off their haunted land fixed.
- The time for corpses to vanish has been increased (This was reduced for testing).
- Power growth of revenants based on times in combat reduced.
- The starting power of revenants has been reduced (For testing they were set to a random factor between the lowest and absolute highest power).


Notes:
The amount of revenants at a totem increases over time until the totem is removed.
Bins can be opened only during the deserted phases, but can be taken in the abandoned phase and when totems are removed.
We are working on the issue with gates.

Please provide feedback as before. We will continue testing and balancing until next Wednesday.

Thanks!

[Snakepit]

Did tested the revenants again. I think i am average player.
- i whas able to kill 2 revenants around 150 HP each. I run to the target hit and run a way. Around 7 hits to kill one of them.
- I have clothing armor suith that give around 20% damgae reduction. With clothing the revenants did around 2,6 damage unarmed
- When you attack one the others comming to help there revenants brother and i like that
- Range from the tribe ground is good
- Loot is nothing special good be better
- For me the revenants unarmed with 150 hp are to weak but i expect that there will be stronger revenants around. For new players i expect the still hard to kill
- I think there still need to be very strong revenants in some situations to stimulate teambuilding between player tribes.
- i worry a bid about the speed players will kill the revenants now they so weak. Is there a mechanism that will prevent this. I think revenants is a good thing for the game and i don't want to see it go away after some weeks.

[MrDDT]

I'm not sure where you want zombies to be.

I would rather see more zombies doing low damage and low HP than than fewer zombies with more life and stronger attacks.

Also what do you expect these zombies to be a challenge for? Like how would you compare them to other animals?

Feedback on other aspects.
Zombies are not looting from baskets on the ground (at all) they are not looting from any type of storage container (canopies, pouches, bins, carts that are not on the player)
Zombies are looting 1 to 4 items off a player (only items they can wear) mostly 1 item. This to me should be much higher. I doubt zombies will be killing people often and they should be looting more when they do.
After looting a weapon their damage didnt increase much at all (unarmed to mod QL club, damage went from 1.5-2.5 to 1.7 to 2.7). (137HP zombie)
(Unarmed to Master Axe 3.5 avg damage to 4.5 avg damage) (206 HP zombie) I believe both of these were due to the increased STR on the armor it took. Also it could have been a change because of the missing armor I had.
After around 25 deaths to the same zombie, it did not gain any power (I understand that deaths doesnt make them grow stronger, however, 25 times in combat should have done something)
Zombies using armor were effected by the stats of that armor (Nice work) damage increased were wearing.
HP was not effected by putting on +FOR or +STR armor it took from me. I would assume that AGI doesnt effect its swing speed.

Attack range on zombies unarmed attack doesnt seem right, its pretty far.
Aggro range seems to be low, zombies of larger tribes cant even aggro people at the edge of that tribe range they spawned at, seems kinda odd.
Many times the zombie trying to kill me would get bored 60% through the fight and either just stand there or run off.

[Azzym]

The Test Server is restarting and will be up at roughly 8:40 PM PST

These adjustments were made to Revenants:
- Base damage is much lower for unarmed attacks. Armed attacks will match human armed attacks + additional power based on times in combat.
- Strength of revenants ranges from 50 to 100 and this affects their attack power.

For me as a combat noob I find the damage a bit too low. They did 1,5 - 2,5 on leather (poor quality). Would like to see a bit more making the fight a little more challenging. The factor I don't know about is the additional power. Why not let base damage be around 3-4 + additional damage depending on times in combat of an additional 0 - 15 damage or so. A really weak zombie thus makes about 4 damage and a strong, experienced do like 19-20 damage. Perhaps that is not enough for the better geared players.

- Revenants stay closer to their haunted totem.
- Revenants respawn after 1 game day (They were set quick for testing).

Never got a chance to see if there were revenants roaming the land this time but I found that awesome. Roaming revenants were making ANY place unsecure. If you removed it I would beg you to add it again.
Range is a wee bit too small now. Would love to see them occupy a little larger area around the totem. Tribe area + 10m or so.
Respawn rate of once per game day is a suggestion for when it goes live? In that case it would be totally ok

- Bug with revenants not being lootable off their haunted land fixed.
- The time for corpses to vanish has been increased (This was reduced for testing).

Good!

Notes:
The amount of revenants at a totem increases over time until the totem is removed.
Bins can be opened only during the deserted phases, but can be taken in the abandoned phase and when totems are removed.
We are working on the issue with gates.

Not sure what the growth will look like in the end, but the nr of revenants right now is a bit low. If that number or revs will grow to something like the first test we did it would be ok though.
Revenants can not enter some open gates as well as walk through closed ones. The gate that just opens up like 45 degrees (dont remember the name) seemed to block them off completely. They are not able to enter chief tents either, which might be planned that way...dunno, but I like it.
Would love to see some seriously hard opposition around/in the larger abandoned tribes for groups of players to take on.

Keep up the good work, I really look forward to dodge revenants on the live server

[taediumvitae]

Zombies are not looting from baskets on the ground (at all) they are not looting from any type of storage container (canopies, pouches, bins, carts that are not on the player)

Agree with DDT.
Its strage to find and kill naked Revs that have armor and weapons on their totem area.

Zombies are looting 1 to 4 items off a player (only items they can wear) mostly 1 item. This to me should be much higher. I doubt zombies will be killing people often and they should be looting more when they do.

I agree.

After looting a weapon their damage didnt increase much at all (unarmed to mod QL club, damage went from 1.5-2.5 to 1.7 to 2.7). (137HP zombie)
(Unarmed to Master Axe 3.5 avg damage to 4.5 avg damage) (206 HP zombie) I believe both of these were due to the increased STR on the armor it took. Also it could have been a change because of the missing armor I had.

Did similar tests with the same result.
Even Supreme weapons dont make much difference in Rev damage. (they dont use power swings at all)

After around 25 deaths to the same zombie, it did not gain any power (I understand that deaths doesnt make them grow stronger, however, 25 times in combat should have done something)

I Agree.

HP was not effected by putting on +FOR or +STR armor it took from me. I would assume that AGI doesnt effect its swing speed.

True.

Even giving Revs full sets of supreme bone armor didnt make them much tougher.
I think You should do with Revs the same thing You are doing with Bears.
Rev with Supreme Weapons and Armor should be as hard to kill as a Big Bear.
(they have much better loot than a bear)

Aggro range seems to be low, zombies of larger tribes cant even aggro people at the edge of that tribe range they spawned at, seems kinda odd.
Many times the zombie trying to kill me would get bored 60% through the fight and either just stand there or run off.

Sometimes all You need is make a few steps and they run away.

Aram

Added after 13 minutes:

There are a few things I forgot to add.

- Damage that naked Revs do right now is totally fine. (damage with weapons should be higher)

- Revs should prefer to loot a weapon first. It shouldnt be totally random. Im not saying always loot weapon first, just make it more often then a piece of armor.
Sometimes I had to die 10 times before Rev took my weapon.

[MrDDT]

I'm not sure where you want zombies to be.

I would rather see more zombies doing low damage and low HP than than fewer zombies with more life and stronger attacks.

Also what do you expect these zombies to be a challenge for? Like how would you compare them to other animals?

The reason I ask this, is because of how the game is set up.

Older vets with combat skills will not be happy killing the same mobs that are "normal" for a new player. Yet you have zombies in the same area's as new players.

I dont see how balancing these for both types of players will ever work. Either one or the other will be happy, or neither. Not both.

So I ask, What do you expect zombies to be at?

I believe the way this needs to be done is change how the game works. Stronger mutants, animals, zombies away from the newer starting areas, or making even stronger monsters/mutants in areas where people know that they are very hard so advance players and tribes can go to have combat and fun.