Feedback Request: Abandonment Phase Patch

[Xsyon]

So it is 25 per stat? And each piece is per stat? So if I have 2 stats on an
item I will see them both up to the limit?

Yes it is 25 per stat and the per piece limit is also per stat. This is in preparation for armor set revisions as Artisan and Master sets will allow for more materials that can provide stat bonuses. (Basic sets will use use 1 primary material, Artisan sets 2, Master sets 3)

Veteran crafters will still be able to craft better gear than new or mid range players as the relative effect of other variables (tools, skills, and stats) is being adjusted right now.

The armor limits were set now rather than later so that we could properly balance the power of creatures and revenants now for players as they will be once our crafting revisions are finalized. The ability of non veteran crafters to boost adult age materials to the bonus limit did get by us but this is being rectified immediately.

[MrDDT]

Yes it is 25 per stat and the per piece limit is also per stat. This is in preparation for armor set revisions as Artisan and Master sets will allow for more materials that can provide stat bonuses. (Basic sets will use use 1 primary material, Artisan sets 2, Master sets 3)

Veteran crafters will still be able to craft better gear than new or mid range players as the relative effect of other variables (tools, skills, and stats) is being adjusted right now.

The armor limits were set now rather than later so that we could properly balance the power of creatures and revenants now for players as they will be once our crafting revisions are finalized. The ability of non veteran crafters to boost adult age materials to the bonus limit did get by us but this is being rectified immediately.

What is an extra .02 damage bonus per item going to do for anyone? This is what you want MAX on your items. Do you even care about an economy in this game? Have you tried playing your game at all to see what is able to be sold or traded?

Let me tell you, only 1 item is really sold or traded and its recipes. Because every noob can and will craft their own crap, which is easy to get.
This armor was the only thing causing people to drive for rare mats, and focusing their skills.

If you are balancing power off these lower armor version, yet going to some how put higher ones in later. Why even balance it now, when later higher ones will be in? Why didnt you just do it at the same time?

When we told you this on the test server nothing was done. Now its on live and new players are making the best stuff in game.

This is on top of the nerf and slap in the face vets had that spent 1000s of hours grinding skills, stats, and getting the rarest mats in the game. Trading other hard earned items for these rare mats only to have them worth crap now.

How about instead of nerfing the items that are working already in game fix the other issues with economy? Heck mutants are turned off right now what happened with that?

[Xsyon]

Recently I have had the time to play the game. In addition we have better tools now to collect data. By playing and inspecting this data I became aware of the extreme imbalance created by overpowered armor, crafted primarily from legendary mutant parts. I played at times with 200 in stats such as strength, fortitude and agility and found it ridiculous. I do not consider armor parts with extreme bonuses to be a 'working' part of the game. Rather I saw it as a critical imbalance issue that needed to be addressed.

There was a huge gap between the vast majority of active players and a few handful of players that have overpowered armor sets, where there should be a more even distribution, with the high level veterans still at the top. Overpowered armor sets could be used to boost a new player or alt to the stat level of most veterans, and that is indeed a slap in the face of veterans who worked on skills and stats without the benefit of trapping and 'growing' a legendary creature.

The original basis for game balance, as designed years ago, was inspired by Dungeons and Dragons. A +5 weapon or set of armor, on a 20 point system was extremely powerful gear. These were bonuses to damage and armor only and not stats.

Xsyon is not intended to be gear focused like theme park or free to play games. A 25 point stat bonus from a set of armor as substantial. Sets adding 50 to 100 to a single stat was never intended and game functions are not balanced for these type of stats.

Respectfully, I disagree with your assessment. Overpowered armor sets are not the answer to the game's economy, nor are they a driving factor. These came about when we increased the bonuses on animal parts based on age and legendary strength. The game nor the economy picked up at that point. I will support this with some data.

Since launch over 150,000 crafted items have changed ownership from the crafter to another owner. Of these, roughly 400 were overpowered armor parts. Most of these were exchanges within a tribe between friendly players. Considering trades made to provide crafters with the materials for these overpowered sets, most were also between tribe members and not a force to drive the game economy.

Regarding the specific example of damage bonuses, these are based on strength. Prior to these changes the maximum full set of strength armor that I could piece together from the database would boost strength up to 70 points. Most overpowered sets fell into the range of +25 to +40. They are not being 'nerfed' considerably.

With the changes the limit is 25 points. A 25 point strength bonus provides an additional 25% to base damage (before damage is adjusted based on swing power and other factors).

Consider a single armor part that provides the least stat bonus: shoulders.
Currently the limit is 1 stat point for a single stat.
A shoulder part with a bonus of 1 provides a base damage increase of .06 to a weapon with 6 points base damage.
This is a minor increase, but needs to be viewed in perspective.

Before this patch:

6600 shoulders in game have a strength bonus below 1
28 shoulders in game ranged from 1 to 2 strength bonus (0.06 to 0.12 damage bonus)
23 shoulders in game ranged from 2 to 3 strength bonus (0.12 to 0.18 damage bonus)
30 shoulders in game ranged from 3 to 4 strength bonus (0.18 to 0.24 damage bonus)
2 shoulders in game exceeded a bonus of 4 (slightly) (0.24+)

Applied to unarmed the current max bonus would indeed by increased by 0.02 damage.

This needs to be viewed in light that previously the max bonus was 0.08 damage, and only 2 shoulders in the entire game provided this type of bonus. In addition, shoulders have been 'nerfed' more than other armor parts, as the large armor parts provide higher bonuses than the smaller parts.

I do care about Xsyon extremely. I hope this is demonstrated by my constant dediction to Xsyon and my efforts to gather and respond to feedback such as this. We are doing our best with very limited resources to continously improve Xsyon, generate an in game economy and provide the game play that both our veterans an new players can enjoy.

Inconsistent feedback does not help our cause.

Your previous criticisms have included:
- There are no rare valuable resources in game.
- There is nothing worth trading in game. Everyone already has everything.
- No creatures are a challenge and can be killed even by a newbie using the proper tactics.

Your current statements that rare and hard earned resources were used to create the 'nerfed' armor sets directly contradicts these previous criticisms.

There is no 'slap in the face' to anyone intended.

I do wholeheartedly agree that new players should not be able to harvest and craft from creatures that provide bonuses matching max level creatures. This was a mistake that, as mentioned above, is being rectified as soon as possible.

In conclusion, these bonus reductions were necessary for stats to fall within a manageable scale. Gear should not be able to double the stats of already maxed character. If you feel that the effects of stat increases (speed or damage increase per point of increase for example) are inadequate, that is different feedback that we will consider.

Our current round of progess should finally address issues with resources and the economy while still respecting the power of veteran players.

[MrDDT]

Let me start with 25 points of STR doesnt add 25% more base damage. It adds 12.5%.
25 Points is also cap of ALL the armor. Which means you would have to have a full set of this maxed out STR armor (which is from killing 1400HP Mutant bears which are NOT in the game anymore) to make. (Not right now because you say its bugged and right now its worse anyone with any skill can cap out making the best armor)

When you were listing the armors did you check to see how many ACTIVE players have 100 skill in either BC or Leathercrafting? Because your numbers are going to be really messed up considering few people have 100 in skills that are required to get high crafted armor. (Or were before this poorly testing and done patch)

You are asking players to trade for top $ on items that will yield them a .5% bonus to damage. Thats ZERO POINT FIVE. Or 1/2 of a percent in damage bonus. Even if you took just based 5 skill leather-crafting, and 5 skill skinning a baby bear you will get a .3 or so bonus to STR on the item, so the upgrade is soooo small. Going out and finding a legendary mutant bear that has max life then killing it all to upgrade an item from 0.3STR to 1.0STR which will give you a 0.35% bonus to damage over a total noobs armor? Come on.

Sounds like your plan isnt to balance but nerf vets so much they dont even care what they craft. I will tell you right now, +25 stat armor will not make anyone pay the amount it will be worth, heck you couldn't even sell the +80 stat armor, how are you going to sell one that's 1/3 effect? I've only sold 1 set of armor and they had to pay a LOT for it. (over 50,000 nails) Just to put it to you how hard and what its worth, I couldn't even wear these suits myself most of the time because we had to save them for the crafters, I ended up with -10ish stat armor from max because the crafters needed them first. Making 2 top end suits was near impossible, I don't even think we had 2 suits of fortitude.

On top of this, you are also changing armor so instead of specing your stats you are making it so everyone has +25 to 3 to 4 stats. So everyone will be wearing pretty much the same exact type of armor, with the same bonuses at the top end.
1) Because they stats are capped
2) Because there is no other choice

Your previous criticisms have included:
- There are no rare valuable resources in game.
- There is nothing worth trading in game. Everyone already has everything.
- No creatures are a challenge and can be killed even by a newbie using the proper tactics.

1) You removed the rare valuable resources in the game. Last I checked there is ZERO mutants. I checked today about 1 hour ago.
2) Nothing worth trading because there isnt anything anyone needs unless they are very new. I have all the recipes I need, I have all my skills trained up, and I have most of my stats so high its boring to train them up anymore. Others are starting to get to this point also. Resources are now only used for skilling after the armor nerf and before the armor nerf people didnt need armor much due to the lack of things to do with it. (Like PVP for a reason, AI was 100% broken, and it never decays)
3) Animals are harder now, so this is taken out of context. Back when I said it, I could kill them with 25 weapon skill, 30 life and a poor weapon, even harder animals like a shadowbear.

Prior to these changes the maximum full set of strength armor that I could piece together from the database would boost strength up to 70 points.

Yet I have already made pieces in game that add up to 87.34STR PRENERF.

I'm not sure how you got 70 STR but my armor isnt even using the highest skills NOR the best stat stuff. You could even get better using max mutant parts, and max skills and higher stats.



I'm missing the problem here, but hey you played so I guess you know. I guess I should just keep grinding my stats because clearly that's what you want. Who cares about armor and weapons, stats grind is the way to go.

New players getting costly gear that they can lose making them very strong, and able to compete near ungeared veteran's level? Yeah cant have that. Got to make it so new players have no chance at it, they have to grind up stats and skills for a year like a vet to get to that level.

Anyways, my rant is done. Like I said this change is unwanted by me and any vet I know. It pretty much slapped us in the face on working hard to get what we got, it was the only drive in the game for me before just to do it even if the economy was broken. Now I see no reason to log in, my toon is getting nerfed non stop, crafting skills are worthless, and economy is dead. Any challenge is gone (mutants are still not even back in the game after what? 2 weeks?) There is no drive for a vet at higher skill levels to do anything, there is no large scale anything to do. You keep nerfing it.

[Xsyon]

I think you misunderstand the goal of these changes in progress.

If the bonus damage based on strength is an issue it can be increased. It was never before brought up as an issue and seems to be an issue now only that I am reducing out of control unintended stats.

If there are issues with the top speed, damage, skill for the top level of stats, then it should be provided as feedback. This was part of our balancing that was done with the skills and stat updates.

Top level stuff will still be top level stuff. Top level players will still be required to get these materials and craft top level items. The difference that top level won't be +100 to a stat, it will +25 with the possibility of increasing other stats and powers as well.

Grind is not the way to go, but neither is having armor sets that eliminate the need for raising stats or throwing off the balance between mid range and advanced players.

[tomduril]

Something in a total different direction ...

I noticed after an encounter with a Rev - which I fled because crafters with +Spirit armor should not fight revenants - I went home and was killed by 2 marmots

However - did you notice that the loading time for the world went up?
The last time I died/got transported - it took my computer about 20-30 seconds to load the world.
This time it took 62 seconds ... I guess it has to do with the higher animal/revenant count?
Or probably my internet connection was just mixed up?

Did anyone else experience an increase of the loading time?

[Wharmaster]

Something in a total different direction ...

I noticed after an encounter with a Rev - which I fled because crafters with +Spirit armor should not fight revenants - I went home and was killed by 2 marmots

However - did you notice that the loading time for the world went up?
The last time I died/got transported - it took my computer about 20-30 seconds to load the world.
This time it took 62 seconds ... I guess it has to do with the higher animal/revenant count?
Or probably my internet connection was just mixed up?

Did anyone else experience an increase of the loading time?

Actually, mine seems to be shorter now. And no crashing while loading lately.

[MrDDT]

The original basis for game balance, as designed years ago, was inspired by Dungeons and Dragons. A +5 weapon or set of armor, on a 20 point system was extremely powerful gear. These were bonuses to damage and armor only and not stats.

Lets just talk about D&D because you like to say how strong +5 was and you think thats on a 20 point gear system was extremely powerful gear. (Which it was)

Right now you have players getting 90 STR max STR starting. Max starting in D&D was 18 STR.
Now here where it gets weird.
90 STR = 45% more damage
18 STR = +3 damage

Now adding +5 damage (from a weapon as you say in D&D) would yeild a 166% bonus to damage compared to STR.
Now in Xsyon you want to cap this bonus from armor (I know we talking about a weapon in D&D but you made the link) so 25% bonus. Where as before I thought it was balanced at 100% bonus.

You see where the effect of armor in Xsyon after your nerf isnt even as good as what you say you want to make it like in D&D?
25% bonus vs 166% bonus.
25%=Max Xsyon bonus
166%=Max D&D bonus (from a weapon as you were saying)

What I want, I dont care how you do it is gear to be more effective so people will want to skill up, and trade, and fight hard monsters to get the mats for it.
I dont see anyone wanting to fight all these 1400HP shadowbears, getting 100 in the leather/bone crafting which takes 1000s of hours just to see a 25% bonus. No one is going to trade for that.

If its just you not wanting to see them with high numbers. You need to UNLINK them from stats. Like D&D did. D&D doesnt give you a + to STR, it gives you a straight up + to damage and to hit.

My fear is that you will try to balance out the bonus from armor, and every time you do it is linked to base stats you start messing with the balancing of base stats.
Which again is why people will feel the need to grind out base stats because it will have more effect than armor. So new players who are behind a year in base stats will feel they need to grind out for a year to get on the same level as a vet.


Key thing to walk away from this post of what I want is, before armor gave around a 100% bonus. Now it does 25% bonus.
I want the effect of armor to be back to 100% even if you swap numbers to make them look smaller or whatever, the effect needs to be strong enough for people to want to craft it. Crafting it should be hard with rare mats like it was.

[unclean666]

Ok Hunting and crafting is what i love to do in this game and idk about all these numbers and percents from this and that and was confused about what part of this was over powered but you can throw any stat number on whatever and I really dont care ive crafted and played games that based stats on high and low numbers.What really makes it matter and what i want to see is it have an great deal of effect in my toon from high end to low and thats the fun part i get from crafting is maybe i want to run a lil faster maybe a lil longer instead or come up with a good mix of effects from the stats that suit my playing style.With the changes/nerf I dont see any change from this that is going to make me want to put in the kind of effort it takes to get to that high end.As a matter of fact the drop in my energy use from my fort suit was so drastic theres no way in hell i would ever bother to make another one and why would I when its so small of effect you wouldent even notice if someone swapped suits on me when i wasent looking? I really dont care how this is done and i love the idea of the artisan and master suits but if i cant see the change and have fun mixing it up then its not fun at all and not worth the effort.


And dont get me wrong im not looking to be OP or have high stats so i can change suits and craft high end at all.My real goal be for nerf and after animals was fixed was to put my 100 plus for suit away and build a mixed stat suit that best fit my playing style and the effects from stats is what woul;d have made it matter and thats the part that was fun for me and was my goals in the game and as a crafter. After nerf theres nothing for me there because theres lil effect from it and no reason for me to even bother.


Know whats really OP the master and artisan tools ive been trying to get limits on for as long as they have been out.

[Snakepit]

I think you misunderstand the goal of these changes in progress.

If the bonus damage based on strength is an issue it can be increased. It was never before brought up as an issue and seems to be an issue now only that I am reducing out of control unintended stats.

If there are issues with the top speed, damage, skill for the top level of stats, then it should be provided as feedback. This was part of our balancing that was done with the skills and stat updates.

Top level stuff will still be top level stuff. Top level players will still be required to get these materials and craft top level items. The difference that top level won't be +100 to a stat, it will +25 with the possibility of increasing other stats and powers as well.

Grind is not the way to go, but neither is having armor sets that eliminate the need for raising stats or throwing off the balance between mid range and advanced players.

Hello Xsyon and DDT,

Normale i do not write much on the forum but this time i feel i need to do it. I hope you understand what i write down because i need to translate a lot. fist of all i realy think you and your people are working very hard to make Xsyon the best game it can become. No doubts about it. On the other hand, DDT point out a lot of things that realy are a problem in xsyon. Most of what he is saying i agre. The difference between me and him is that i allways like to look at the bright side of live. ( DDT you can hit me if you want) Some times it is hard but also with the problems xyon have there will be a solution. The solution will not be reached by how you 2 (xsyon and DDT) are communicate. You 2 guys are telling your thoughts but i don't see a search for a solution of the problem.

I put in more information how i think about xsyon so perspective of you 2 stories become more clear.

- revenants is a good thing developers did. I love it. Maybe some better reward when we kill them.
- i don't like that gear will have the uperhand but the low bonus gear give at the moment don't make me happy. I allmost fight better without gear then with it. gear needs to give more. Why will i buy gear if it don't mater if i wear it. So i only train my skills because they give a bonus to a stat. When i have the bonus i probaly not built gear with my skills because the low bonus it give.
- there is no market. Only some people are trading or give there stuf away because they have no values. i think it will help when you look at your totem that you can see all market orders in the area of local. I think that will be 9 zone's
- we need more scarce materials that you can find on lets say 20 small places on the map. This way we will get more transport and trade. We will get something to fight for. I don't want to turn this game in a hardcore PVP game but some PVP will be welcome.
- we need totems that want fuel when ground is expand outside the basic tribe ground quantity. I don't like how the tribe ground quantity is dun now by player numbers in tribe. Maybe we can have a god in game for confidence. This god want sacrifice. Sacrifice can be given through a totem pole. God of confidence need materials like 2 altars, 5 wine cups, 2 animals heads, ????,??? to give 2 weeks of building ground upgrade or safe ground upgrade. The materials the god needs can be build like it works in game now but then you need this scarce materials that you can find on lets say 20 small places on the map. This way people start gather in 1 tribe to boost ground and protect there scarce materials on transport. There can be more gods in game for other boost.
-can we have some leaderships skills. A system that you can fight in a group. The guy that start the group give a boost to all players. This don't have to be much 1 or 2 stats point will do it. I expect by this way more people gather for a fight, hunt or crafting.

Ok this are some things that get through my mind hope it is valuable.

We all want a good game so lets work together players and developers. Positive criticism and developers that lissen to there player base. Many contradictory messages from noobs and professionail players we will get but try to filter what matters. Developers i love xsyon game and i hope to see it grow. Xsyon have so much new things i can't find in other games let it not be lost.

Snakepit ingame name