Skill Gain System

[JCatano]

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

A big "no" to the EVE system. Boooooo.

State the AFK macroing rules clearly from the beginning. Act swiftly and be harsh. Make sure your GMs are active and all on the same page.

Jadzia... If resources are dynamic and can deplete, which is what the feature list states, you can't effectively macro them.

If there is no ingame mechanic to make macroing impossible or at least hard or pointless, then GMs can only solve a tiny bit of that problem. The problem is that the macroer has to be caught, and what if he is in a well-hidden spot ? Not to mention how much it would cost to hire GMs to catch macroers.

And I don't know how dynamic a mine can be...and it shouldn't deplete fast, should at least last till 1-2 weeks, so that won't help to avoid abusing mining skill.(Just an example)

Yikes... 1-2 weeks? :P How about a random number of successes? Like... 50-200 or something. Hell, I'd probably macro a mine if it lasted 2 weeks.

If you give your GMs tools to travel quickly and see through terrain (hacks), then it's not a waste of money (if paid) or time. Looking for that type of thing should be part of their job. If a company is not prepared to offer the best service possible; don't start.

But... You'll never stop macroing 100% of the time. You can dampen it by GM activity. You can also implement some of the suggestions in here, but many of them punish people who play in a legit manner by restricting their ability to gain.

In the end, macroing will be around in some form no matter what system you use.

[Okie]

Jadzia wrote:

Okie wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

Okie wrote:

I never understood how afk macroing hurt casual players. As long as the grind isnt that bad macroing should not even be an issue.

The question is why to macro ? If you are bored to actually play the game, then why do you play it ?

And macroing hurts the economy, not only the casual players. If gathering resources can be macroed then the legal players aren't able to earn in-game money.

Well im coming from df and in df especially in the beginning you had to macro. Thats why I said if the grind wasent bad then it wouldent be a problem.

To the why to macro if your are to bored to actually play the game question. I like to pvp and the few hours I get to play a week I would rather do that then grind.

I understand your point, and I think you are kind of right...a good game is supposed to be fun from the first minute, not only after you reached some levels. Most of the games reminds me to a very bad book....where I'm asked to read through 300 boring pages for the promise that it will be interesting on the last 10 pages.

In a good game you should be able to PvP on lvl 1, just find the proper enemies, so you could enjoy your favourite activity from the very beginning.

Its another question if someone wants to be the best and the strongest in a week, then its not wrong game design, its the player's fault to set wrong goals. In this case he doesn't play for enjoying PvP or the game, but to strengthen his e-confidence :laugh:

Pretty much but what is this book thing you speak of?

[Okie]

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

JCatano wrote:

A big "no" to the EVE system. Boooooo.

State the AFK macroing rules clearly from the beginning. Act swiftly and be harsh. Make sure your GMs are active and all on the same page.

Jadzia... If resources are dynamic and can deplete, which is what the feature list states, you can't effectively macro them.

If there is no ingame mechanic to make macroing impossible or at least hard or pointless, then GMs can only solve a tiny bit of that problem. The problem is that the macroer has to be caught, and what if he is in a well-hidden spot ? Not to mention how much it would cost to hire GMs to catch macroers.

And I don't know how dynamic a mine can be...and it shouldn't deplete fast, should at least last till 1-2 weeks, so that won't help to avoid abusing mining skill.(Just an example)

Yikes... 1-2 weeks? :P How about a random number of successes? Like... 50-200 or something. Hell, I'd probably macro a mine if it lasted 2 weeks.

If you give your GMs tools to travel quickly and see through terrain (hacks), then it's not a waste of money (if paid) or time. Looking for that type of thing should be part of their job. If a company is not prepared to offer the best service possible; don't start.

But... You'll never stop macroing 100% of the time. You can dampen it by GM activity. You can also implement some of the suggestions in here, but many of them punish people who play in a legit manner by restricting their ability to gain.

In the end, macroing will be around in some form no matter what system you use.

What is not legit if im macroing somewhere where you can kill me and take my shiz but like i said if the game isnt grindy then there shouldent be a problem with it neways.

[Jadzia]

Well in RuneScape there is a funny system to avoid afk macroing...the random events. If you keep doing an activity for some time, something pops up...sometimes a monster attacks you, sometimes you are taken to an island and you have to get out of there, or you are taken into a maze and you have to find your way out of there. If you manage to do the event then you get a small reward. Afk macroing is kind of impossible.

[Jadzia]

JCatano wrote:

Yikes... 1-2 weeks? :P How about a random number of successes? Like... 50-200 or something. Hell, I'd probably macro a mine if it lasted 2 weeks.

If you give your GMs tools to travel quickly and see through terrain (hacks), then it's not a waste of money (if paid) or time. Looking for that type of thing should be part of their job. If a company is not prepared to offer the best service possible; don't start.

But... You'll never stop macroing 100% of the time. You can dampen it by GM activity. You can also implement some of the suggestions in here, but many of them punish people who play in a legit manner by restricting their ability to gain.

In the end, macroing will be around in some form no matter what system you use.

If you get 50 ores out of it then its not a mine only a hole
And perhaps you can control a game with GMs if its population is not bigger than some thousands, but later on its impossible.
If we got levels for accomplish goals then macroing for levels would be impossible...macroing for resources still would be a problem though.

[Arcturus]

Jadzia wrote:

Well in RuneScape there is a funny system to avoid afk macroing...the random events. If you keep doing an activity for some time, something pops up...sometimes a monster attacks you, sometimes you are taken to an island and you have to get out of there, or you are taken into a maze and you have to find your way out of there. If you manage to do the event then you get a small reward. Afk macroing is kind of impossible.

Interesting but an immersion killer unless done right.

[Jadzia]

Arcturus wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

Well in RuneScape there is a funny system to avoid afk macroing...the random events. If you keep doing an activity for some time, something pops up...sometimes a monster attacks you, sometimes you are taken to an island and you have to get out of there, or you are taken into a maze and you have to find your way out of there. If you manage to do the event then you get a small reward. Afk macroing is kind of impossible.

Interesting but an immersion killer unless done right.

True, but it was done right, and most of them was fun The random event kind of related to your activity, like when you were fishing a troll came out of the water claiming that all the fishes are belong to him, and started to kill you :P Or an old man came to you and asked for some information, if you didn't answer properly he got mad at you and teleported you into the maze.
The funniest one was when a lady came to you selling sandwiches, if you didn't pick one she got mad and hit you on the head with a baguette :laugh:

[JCatano]

Jadzia wrote:

Well in RuneScape there is a funny system to avoid afk macroing...the random events. If you keep doing an activity for some time, something pops up...sometimes a monster attacks you, sometimes you are taken to an island and you have to get out of there, or you are taken into a maze and you have to find your way out of there. If you manage to do the event then you get a small reward. Afk macroing is kind of impossible.

"Kind of impossible" means it's possible to a point. We'll all have to accept that it will happen in some form.

The RuneScape idea sounds more annoying than anything, but would certainly help. Personally, I wouldn't want to see that here. (Plus, go to YouTube and you can find many working bots/macros for RuneScape.)

I think the cap should cause the situation to be OK as far as skill gain if supported by GM enforcement. SWG had (may still have) a built-in macro tool. Nobody really complained about it. If there hadn't been a skill cap, there probably would have been a lot of gripes, though.

It's not impossible to help control situations with lots of people playing. If you have that many players, then it should mean your financial situation is positive. This is assuming the GMs are actually being paid. If not paid, then it's not going to affect your finances.

I never said anyone could fix the problem... I just said it can be alleviated.

[JCatano]

Jadzia wrote:

True, but it was done right, and most of them was fun The random event kind of related to your activity, like when you were fishing a troll came out of the water claiming that all the fishes are belong to him, and started to kill you :P Or an old man came to you and asked for some information, if you didn't answer properly he got mad at you and teleported you into the maze.
The funniest one was when a lady came to you selling sandwiches, if you didn't pick one she got mad and hit you on the head with a baguette :laugh:

That actually sounds funny, but annoying after awhile. I probably wouldn't mind if it rarely happened, though.

[Jadzia]

JCatano wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

Well in RuneScape there is a funny system to avoid afk macroing...the random events. If you keep doing an activity for some time, something pops up...sometimes a monster attacks you, sometimes you are taken to an island and you have to get out of there, or you are taken into a maze and you have to find your way out of there. If you manage to do the event then you get a small reward. Afk macroing is kind of impossible.

"Kind of impossible" means it's possible to a point. We'll all have to accept that it will happen in some form.

The RuneScape idea sounds more annoying than anything, but would certainly help. Personally, I wouldn't want to see that here. (Plus, go to YouTube and you can find many working bots/macros for RuneScape.)

It was impossible to afk macro, the problem you saw on youtube were human bots, gold farmers from poor countries ( I don't want to name any).
The annoying factor...it can be, but if its designed to be fun and its rewarding enough it shouldn't be.