Skill Gain System

[Derek]

It might be a good idea to start thinking about how this will play out before the game officially launches. If skill gain is solely achieved through repeating the same action, this will inevitably lead to rampant macroing. Just look at DF and where they are now. The game started with heavy exploitation of mobs for gold and resources which were then used to nonstop macro skills to the highest levels in a very short amount of time. The devs never saw it coming.

The way I propose to combat this is through an Eve Online type skill gain system to complement the other system. So you can put a skill you want raised in the queue and that skill will lvl up to X in Y amount of time. That skill will then be locked from gain the normal way so you can't get double gains.

This would allow more casual players a way to keep up and also give more control over character progression timeline to the devs. That is, if the afk/queue system was more efficient than the repetition system.

Edit: this would also allow for more sandbox type play as you wouldn't feel the need to grind skills while in game.

[Kitsume]

Some sort of skill/time limits would be a good thing.

I played Dragonrealms, they had a skill XP mindlock system. If you gained too many XP for a skill in a short amount of time, that skill would lock and you would not gain any more XP in that skill until you had rested the skill for a little while. You could work on another skill, but the more locked skills you had, the easier it was to fill up another skill. The when you used a skill, system put skill XP in to a temporary holding bucket which was absorbed over time into the skill's experience.

This didn't completely stop AFK Macroing, but it made it harder for someone to use it to out pace players who actually played the game. GMs would check on players who appeared to be unresponsive and if caught, they were put in time out rooms or banned for multiple infractions of the policy.

[Derek]

That sounds like another way to do it. I like the Eve style skill progression because you can actually play the game without grinding and still feel like you've accomplished something. Either way, macro skill gain needs to have some kind of check/balance because it can some serious consequences to the game if left unchecked.

[Jadzia]

Another way I can think of is not to get xp at all for activities, but people could get a level when they accomplish a goal. Like for construction skill one would get level 1 when he build a bench. After that he can build more benches if he needs some, but that won't give him any xp or levels. He will get his next level only when he build a tent.

For combat it could be the same, he gets lvl 1 when he kill a wolf. After that killing wolves won't give him xp, he can kill them though for resources. He will get the next level when he kills a bear, the 3rd when he kills a zombie or whatever. The higher level the goal is, it should be harder and harder to accomplish, harder to kill the monster or in building-wise would need more resources and would take more time.

And of course every new level opens up a new set of available goals, like you won't able to build a tent till you haven't built a bench. And you won't be able to kill a bear till you haven't killed a wolf ( you would be able to attack it though, just wouldn't be able to finish it up.)

[Bruise187]

Have the devs even considered the afk macroing thing or even the active macroing fo that matter. I would rather it not be allowed. I don't want the game to turn out like UO where none of the old or new played know how to play without razor.

[Okie]

I never understood how afk macroing hurt casual players. As long as the grind isnt that bad macroing should not even be an issue.

[Primavera]

I like the way this thread is heading - thanks for posting the stuff from Jooky, Wade.

Just a question here to Jadzia on the suggestion below (Even though the thread has moved on a little). I read this and felt it would mean solo players would be very disadvantaged by the system, for fairly obvious reasons - was that your intention or did you envisage ways around it?


Jadzia wrote:

Another way I can think of is not to get xp at all for activities, but people could get a level when they accomplish a goal. Like for construction skill one would get level 1 when he build a bench. After that he can build more benches if he needs some, but that won't give him any xp or levels. He will get his next level only when he build a tent.

For combat it could be the same, he gets lvl 1 when he kill a wolf. After that killing wolves won't give him xp, he can kill them though for resources. He will get the next level when he kills a bear, the 3rd when he kills a zombie or whatever. The higher level the goal is, it should be harder and harder to accomplish, harder to kill the monster or in building-wise would need more resources and would take more time.

And of course every new level opens up a new set of available goals, like you won't able to build a tent till you haven't built a bench. And you won't be able to kill a bear till you haven't killed a wolf ( you would be able to attack it though, just wouldn't be able to finish it up.)

[kiwibird]

Sounds good to me, where problems of 'my way is my fun' in MMOs its important to give that master-of-all the flick, which typically comes from single/solo playing games.

I keep saying it, but Jooky has really thought about a lot of details of this game, and I like that he has done this now, and not during the production (thou Im sure a lot of things happened that way).

[Jadzia]

Primavera wrote:

I like the way this thread is heading - thanks for posting the stuff from Jooky, Wade.

Just a question here to Jadzia on the suggestion below (Even though the thread has moved on a little). I read this and felt it would mean solo players would be very disadvantaged by the system, for fairly obvious reasons - was that your intention or did you envisage ways around it?


Jadzia wrote:

Another way I can think of is not to get xp at all for activities, but people could get a level when they accomplish a goal. Like for construction skill one would get level 1 when he build a bench. After that he can build more benches if he needs some, but that won't give him any xp or levels. He will get his next level only when he build a tent.

For combat it could be the same, he gets lvl 1 when he kill a wolf. After that killing wolves won't give him xp, he can kill them though for resources. He will get the next level when he kills a bear, the 3rd when he kills a zombie or whatever. The higher level the goal is, it should be harder and harder to accomplish, harder to kill the monster or in building-wise would need more resources and would take more time.

And of course every new level opens up a new set of available goals, like you won't able to build a tent till you haven't built a bench. And you won't be able to kill a bear till you haven't killed a wolf ( you would be able to attack it though, just wouldn't be able to finish it up.)

No no, it wasn't my intention at all. I don't agree with forced grouping, and in the long run it hurts the game...in a later period when everyone is higher level its kind of impossible for a new player to find groups to level up with.

I'm not a combat-oriented person so let me give you an example of my idea with blacksmithing.

Let's say you have a decent level in blacksmithing, so reaching the next one should be hard and time consuming. You get your next level by crafting a real masterpiece. You know that your masterpiece requires a special tool, which you can find in ancient chests hidden somewhere...so you have to scavange for that chest.

Once you find it (it shouldn't be hard, frustration is not a good way to entertain people ) you realize that you have to solve a hard puzzle to open it. Once you did that you get your tool which is not tradeable. You know as well that you masterpiece requires a special material which can only be found in an island inside the lake...on the bottom of a small but deep lake there. So you have to craft your boat, and somehow you have to be able to dive so deep.

You go and get some sand and ash and you make glass in a furnace...and with your glassblowing skill you craft a glass helmet which will make you able to breath underwater. Now you are prepared to get that special material.

And your quest goes so on and on, till you gather everything to craft your masterpiece. The whole process should take like 1 month on a high level. But since there is nothing repetive in it, and every activity is planned to be fun, its not boring and irritating, and unable to be macroed. And all these stuffs you will need are not tradeable, so its not like your high level friends rush you through the content. While leveling combat a kill is only granted to you if you kill the monster all alone, noone else hits it. Thats when its about to get a new level, otherwise you can kill in group of course.

I'm not saying all these skills are or will be implemented in Xsyon, I only tried to give a feeling how my idea would work

[JCatano]

A big "no" to the EVE system. Boooooo.

State the AFK macroing rules clearly from the beginning. Act swiftly and be harsh. Make sure your GMs are active and all on the same page.

Jadzia... If resources are dynamic and can deplete, which is what the feature list states, you can't effectively macro them.