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  1. #31
    I know we don't want to make it too complex, but my suggestion is to have a base upkeep determined by tribe type (homestead, band, clan, etc) and then add a nominal per person/structure amount after that. 1000 resources seems a bit low considering the land area available to a top tier tribe. I am wondering how structure decay will be affected by this in the future, as well.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Xsyon View Post
    Consider this: currently in game there are over 25,000 schemes stockpiled, mostly by larger veteran tribes. One of the most frequent complaints to support is from new players that can't get their hands on these schemes.
    Most of this stockpile is leather and tailoring schemes which are worthless. Architecture schemes are so rare that they can't be traded, they must be saved for tribe members. You are punishing people for being creative and building lots of structures. You should be rewarding people for that, since that makes the game fun. You shouldn't have to pay a penalty to build. I know our tribe does not have a bunch of schemes that anyone wants. They must be hidden away on other tribes. I think your numbers are skewed. I also think that $5300 every 22 days is far too excessive - and just for tribe stats? We subscribe to have fun and play the game. We don't subscribe to work to support some false economy that would never occur in a post-apocalyptic world.
    The mechanism is also cumbersome. You can only add 20 granite at a time. So you have to do 50 additions just to fill it up. You should be able to stack it all in there. And what is the food for? And who are we paying? Why are we paying them? We are paying homage to the almighty totem? Seriously.... give us some animals to kill...

    New players aren't leaving because they can't get schemes. They are leaving because the game needs content, especially now that the creature population is so low. If they are complaining to support about not finding schemes, they won't stay anyway, since they aren't willing to put forth the effort to get out there and scavenge enough nails to buy schemes or to find their own. Do you think they are willing to grind granite instead? I think not. Then how is the trade happening? The veteran players are going to run all over the world to gather this granite? The new players can't carry it to them.

    I feel that your single-mindedness in this endeavor is disturbing, and that you are not listening to your customers very well. You need to focus on what would make the game more fun for everyone, not punish veteran players to appease new players. The veteran players won't comply, and will leave if you keep just taking things away from them. The new players that are complaining will leave - we see it all the time.
    Last edited by Riverspirit; 03-16-2013 at 07:16 AM.

  3. #33
    The revised sink on both seem a lot better for starting this out as I dont see a need to start something like this off with huge numbers and can always be revised later when its had some time to get its feet on the ground in game.The off tribe stat bonus is better but I really would like something else besides stats as a reward/bonus for sinking the currency...I just dont want everything in the game to all be about stats..armor,animals/hunting,mats and bonuses.We have been told of this thing you call luck but tbh I dont think it does much if anything at all and even you say just slightly.Well this could be a way for you to work this thing called Luck into the game.Ill leave it at that I dont want to beat the subject to death.

    The ally sys on trade totems seems interesting and helps/will help people find more of what there looking for and buy a lot maybe they wasent.It wasent what I had in mind for seeing others trade totems and sells without having to run blindly around the map just to even find a totem let alone what your looking for so its a great start and happy to see it.

    And you are right about new players and recipes.I have come across that problem many many times when they need something I have but are new and dont have much to offer and have infact just had them pull granit or other labor type things for them.

  4. #34
    I think its a great idea and if anything the new revised amount every 22 days is on the low side, however that was one of the suggestion i had that i did post, start out low, will be less of a stink raised by players and adjust it according to economy/ active player base over time. Can u do more with the concept as some players have suggested, sure there are lots of directions you could take with it either now or in future, but i believe you have a good base concept underway. There really isnt much of a current economy and i believe this in conjunction with the trade totems should hopefully change that at least some.

  5. #35
    Fresh Log in to Test Server, totem upkeep at zero, added 43% of the granite and totem says i have terra and construction rights but when i try to terraform i get the "resource upkeep must be above 20% error" and when i try to build, i get the "resource upkeep must be above 40%". Tried logging in on different character to see if it was a relog thing, it was not. Also waited a good 30 minutes to see if it was some kind of time update issue, was not. Only thing that got it working was to fully stock to 100%

    Update: It dropped below 100% and i can no longer terraform, back to the "resource upkeep must be above 20%" message
    Last edited by OrlandoKev; 03-16-2013 at 11:43 AM.

  6. #36
    I think it would be helpful to add more than 1 stack of granite at a time, but it only took me 37s to add 1000 granite. (Just from my back to the totem), I dont believe its a major issue to take that long once every 22 game days.

    I see you lowered the # of granite needed.

    I would like to see other bonuses based on the items you place in the totem, and maybe only 1 bonus active at a time. Like option for "fishing" bonus which would say give 2x fishing speed.

    Another would be increase 2x healing speed by adding foraged items.

    Another would be increase hunting skill by +20 by adding animal bones.


    Someone posted about adding content should be high on the list, I agree this is a major thing but I believe new players rarely feel this is the issue. I believe this economy issue is a huge issue on new and vets on what will "drive" them to do things and play. A sense of worth, and value on items is key.


    Currently I believe the cost on the totem is a little low, but the whole system seems very good so far.

  7. #37
    I agree with the statement that adding this upkeep is a bad idea. Why make it more difficult for a larger tribe to keep enjoying the game? If we have to start grinding materials just for the single purpose of "continuing what we are doing", then that's just a waste of time IMO. We don't want things that make a game feel more like "work".

    Focus more on content IMO, less on finding ways to make the game more difficult.

    EDIT: Regarding the above comment that new players don't necessarily need "more new content", I respectfully disagree. In general, people look at everything a game has to offer and then decide if they want to play it. You are less likely to find players that want to join a game with very little content; with hopes that someday there will be more to do. I think the evidence of that is the small and shrinking Xsyon community. Even though I don't personally care for Wurm Online, their community seems to be growing - and I would site the large amounts of added content as the source for that growth.
    Last edited by Elric; 03-16-2013 at 09:02 PM.

  8. #38
    I agree Elric, however, I also believe this was needed to set the groundwork for economy. Economy in Xsyon has been broken from day 1. When the upkeep system even though its not fully fleshed out, it will set the groundwork for economy in the rest of the game and is greatly needed and required for the building blocks of the game.

    Content is always great to add, and it will always add more players. Broken economy was one of the major reasons why it was so hard for new players to have a sense of worth.

    For large tribes I believe the upkeep is really just a minor task, it takes very little effort to upkeep a large tribe when you have even just a handful of active members.

    P.S. using "shrinking Xsyon community" as your evidence for or against something is very unlikely to be true. Xsyon has a LOT of content in the sandbox aspect, that its missing is reasons, and that drive.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Elric View Post
    I agree with the statement that adding this upkeep is a bad idea. Why make it more difficult for a larger tribe to keep enjoying the game? If we have to start grinding materials just for the single purpose of "continuing what we are doing", then that's just a waste of time IMO. We don't want things that make a game feel more like "work".

    Focus more on content IMO, less on finding ways to make the game more difficult.

    EDIT: Regarding the above comment that new players don't necessarily need "more new content", I respectfully disagree. In general, people look at everything a game has to offer and then decide if they want to play it. You are less likely to find players that want to join a game with very little content; with hopes that someday there will be more to do. I think the evidence of that is the small and shrinking Xsyon community. Even though I don't personally care for Wurm Online, their community seems to be growing - and I would site the large amounts of added content as the source for that growth.
    I agree Elric. Our tribe has hosted well over 30 new players since free trial. They leave because there is nothing they can kill, nothing they can cook, nothing they can tame, nothing to do but grind. Now we will attempt to fix that by adding more grinding. Now new players can be the slaves of veteran players and gather their granite for them! What fun! None of those players expressed any concern about the economy. Granted, they were isolated from needing items they can't get, because our tribe takes care of people, but that is an awful lot of players that didn't stay because of the lack of content.

    This effort won't fix anything. And it is enough that I just cancelled both my subscriptions. If it all pans out like it looks now, I probably won't renew them. The only way to actually introduce an economy into this game is to offer players something of value, not force an economy by introducing penalties for non-compliance. Something positive, something with rewards would go much further toward this goal. An NPC that sells mounts or buffs or something fun would stimulate it very quickly. Sure, it isn't sandbox, but this ludicrous new economy isn't either.

  10. #40
    I will reiterate what is stated on the first post: The main purpose of this feedback thread is to find out what you players want from the upkeep system.

    There is absolutely no need to fret about punishments or difficult grinds simply because of arbitrary amounts that were set on the test server or the current restrictions that are set so we can test functionality of the system. This is not presented as a final system ready for bug testing.

    So please provide feedback on what you'd like to see in terms of bonuses and amounts. Trade Totems and the Upkeep system along with improved crafting need to be wrapped up and patched before I can continue with the agriculture system that many of you have seen in progress and cooking.

    Thanks

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