I'm Missing Something

[Sarg]

TheMap wrote:

See the problem here is that you are assuming that you cant have gathering if you are a fighter. And in essence that is a BIG hindrance to everything you just said.

Forgive me if I'm being dense here, but how does that change anything? The guard could theoretically get some gathering done himself, but assuming resource locations/nodes are fairly limited, basically all you're doing is splitting the spoils instead of handing over coin as a paycheck.

I'll grant you, it's somewhat more engaging than standing around, but someone show me the line of PvP-specced players (and lets face it, we all know to win in PvP against a dedicated PvPer you have to be one yourself ... especially when they pick the battlefield and get the element of surprise) that are looking for an opportunity to go out and gather for a couple hours. People who enjoy PvP enough to be good enough at it to actually be a decent guard are generally not going to have a lot of interest in gathering. At best, it's a job they have to do to ensure a flow of resources to their tribe ... but it's not something they're going to consider fun.

[Farmerbob]

Sarg wrote:

TheMap wrote:

See the problem here is that you are assuming that you cant have gathering if you are a fighter. And in essence that is a BIG hindrance to everything you just said.

Forgive me if I'm being dense here, but how does that change anything? The guard could theoretically get some gathering done himself, but assuming resource locations/nodes are fairly limited, basically all you're doing is splitting the spoils instead of handing over coin as a paycheck.

I'll grant you, it's somewhat more engaging than standing around, but someone show me the line of PvP-specced players (and lets face it, we all know to win in PvP against a dedicated PvPer you have to be one yourself ... especially when they pick the battlefield and get the element of surprise) that are looking for an opportunity to go out and gather for a couple hours. People who enjoy PvP enough to be good enough at it to actually be a decent guard are generally not going to have a lot of interest in gathering. At best, it's a job they have to do to ensure a flow of resources to their tribe ... but it's not something they're going to consider fun.

Because of the sandbox nature of the game, you will be able to, and presumeably want to place your village near, or even on top of, critical resources such as junkpiles. This by itself will simplify some safety/crafting issues. Nearby resources can be cleared of cover and prepped in such a way that crafters and guards can see approaching reds or unknowns from a distance, and have time to prepare to fight or flee.

When seondary totems are available to a town, you can place secondary totems and terraform around your stone/water/whatever resources and make it possible to actually defend these locations.

This assumes that jumping is nerfed, of course, currently terraformed slopes are defensively meaningless.

There are in fact some very good PVP players who actually enjoy crafting, and HOPEFULLY, PVP will be very stat dependent, and require at least some degree of crafting or gathering to effectively raise stats. Your PVP players may WANT to cut trees and split logs, mine rock, or terraform for the stats they gain from doing so.

*shrug* too early to tell really.

[Zarma]

For some reason people feel inclined to assume that people who pvp want to do nothing but pvp, which isn't the truth. I like to pvp, but in Wurm I've still got a slew of crafting skills. Also, if the gatherers learned to fight, they would not need guards. I don't assume that anyone is actually going to hire some one to protect them when they go on their precious berry harvest, and I doubt that anyone looking at the consequences would bother attacking the player to obtain their precious berries. Guards are more an implement that is player driver. If you're going on a long journey with loads of goods, you might hire a team of guards, and the guards would be happy to go because they're being paid and there is a chance that they'll get some PvP/PvE. The traders will be happy to hire them because the price of getting the guard will probably be less then the total value of the goods they have.

PvP may or may not be a large part of the game, and I believe that it'll be mostly decided by the player. If they want to pvp, they will probably find a way to pvp, and most likely with other people who want to pvp. It's obvious that the occasional noob might stumble a little too close to the green mist, and a crazy guy on a mutated bear comes charging out, but that just makes it worth while. It's supposed to be balance, to appeal to all varieties of players, and some people just want it all one way or all another, which just makes a game dull.

[TheMap]

Sarg wrote:

TheMap wrote:

See the problem here is that you are assuming that you cant have gathering if you are a fighter. And in essence that is a BIG hindrance to everything you just said.

Forgive me if I'm being dense here, but how does that change anything? The guard could theoretically get some gathering done himself, but assuming resource locations/nodes are fairly limited, basically all you're doing is splitting the spoils instead of handing over coin as a paycheck.

I'll grant you, it's somewhat more engaging than standing around, but someone show me the line of PvP-specced players (and lets face it, we all know to win in PvP against a dedicated PvPer you have to be one yourself ... especially when they pick the battlefield and get the element of surprise) that are looking for an opportunity to go out and gather for a couple hours. People who enjoy PvP enough to be good enough at it to actually be a decent guard are generally not going to have a lot of interest in gathering. At best, it's a job they have to do to ensure a flow of resources to their tribe ... but it's not something they're going to consider fun.

The problem here is, unless you are handicapped and can only use one hand then you can DEFEND yourself. Everyone is allowed a fighting spec and a craft/gathering/action ability as well as anyone can pick up the 4 junk pile resources with no skill at all. EVERYONE gets fighting abilities. So you wont need a guard, turn around an defend yourself.

If this shit actually went down in real life, are you going to tell me you wouldn't have some kind of protection on yourself or a way to defend yourself while you are looking for materials? Of course you would. Learn to defend.

I have been playing MO for the past 3-4 months, even the most craft based guilds teach each other how to fight. Even the non-pk/gankers can defend themselves.

Everyone needs to stop crying like they cant do anything about getting attacked.

[Sarg]

We're changing arguments from "just bring guards when gathering" to "become a PvPer", then?

That wasn't what I was debating and I don't see much point in doing so, as open-PvP is clearly an aspect of the game.

[TheMap]

Sarg wrote:

We're changing arguments from "just bring guards when gathering" to "become a PvPer", then?

That wasn't what I was debating and I don't see much point in doing so, as open-PvP is clearly an aspect of the game.

You are asking for the option to hire NPC guards to protect you so you don't have to protect yourself. Do you know how silly this is? Because I can as a PVPer also hire these guards. So what is the point they just cancel each other out and it ends up me vs. you?

In the same sense, the tribe you are in will want to guard you if it means they benefit out of it. Armor/Weapons ect. This is what sandbox is all about. Figure it out, the tools and methods will be available.

[Sarg]

Hold the phone there, my friend. I was responding to someone saying the devs didn't need to worry about a situation because gatherers should just hire guards.

My response started with "If 'just hire guards' is the answer" ... and is conditioned on not doing anything about the original issue.

And guards don't cancel each other out, guards allow the non-combatant a much better chance to escape in the fog of battle.

I have no problem asking the tribe to escort a particularly large or critical resource, but for day to day gathering? Not a chance.

[Relandi]

A point I'd like to look at more, that seems to be glaringly overlooked.

The anti-open PvP crowd keeps using their main refrain as "I don't want to lose all my loot after hours of working"

Now, to my understanding, upon death a "good" character would only lose perhaps 1 item, out of their entire character (chosen, or at random, I dunno) - but how does losing 1 item, equate to losing your entire "day" of harvesting resources?

Clearly the PK can't pick up EVERYTHING on you - nor could he carry the large amounts you'd seemingly have on the ground, so why is this "omg I'm gunna lose entire days to PKs" mindset so common?

Or am I misunderstanding their loot mechanics?

Shit happens, count your losses and move on. A PK cannot be everywhere at once, you're bound to make several successful runs before being hit by a PK and losing that 1 item.

[Okie]

Just stay in the safezone I dont want you going crazy when I gank ya and you go shoot up a mall or something.

[Spitfire5]

Okie wrote:

Just stay in the safezone I dont want you going crazy when I gank ya and you go shoot up a mall or something.

This