I'm Missing Something

[Jadzia]

Relandi wrote:

A point I'd like to look at more, that seems to be glaringly overlooked.

The anti-open PvP crowd keeps using their main refrain as "I don't want to lose all my loot after hours of working"

Now, to my understanding, upon death a "good" character would only lose perhaps 1 item, out of their entire character (chosen, or at random, I dunno) - but how does losing 1 item, equate to losing your entire "day" of harvesting resources?

Clearly the PK can't pick up EVERYTHING on you - nor could he carry the large amounts you'd seemingly have on the ground, so why is this "omg I'm gunna lose entire days to PKs" mindset so common?

Or am I misunderstanding their loot mechanics?

Shit happens, count your losses and move on. A PK cannot be everywhere at once, you're bound to make several successful runs before being hit by a PK and losing that 1 item.

Yes, I think you misunderstood it. As far as I know an evil character can full loot anyone he killed. There will be a weight limit for the stuffs 1 person can carry, and a loot timer too. So probably full loot depends on how heavy stuffs the victim had, how fast the PKer can click, and the number of the PKers. More PKer can carry more and they can loot faster.

[Siko]

Relandi wrote:

The anti-open PvP crowd keeps using their main refrain as "I don't want to lose all my loot after hours of working"

I haven't seen the "I don't want to lose all my loot after hours of working" argument all that much. In my opinion, what it comes down to for most players, is that they don't want to be forced into wasting time on something they don't want to do. That goes for all players, not just the "anti open PvP crowd". A PK doesn't want to waste time chasing players who can get away 99% of the time no matter what they do. A crafter doesn't want to spend 99% of their time taking measures to avoid being killed by bored PKs. If a player finds they spend most of their time in the game doing something they don't enjoy, he will move on to another game.

The problem is that without pvp restrictions, those that are mainly interested in non-pvp activities are at the mercy of others when it comes to enjoying the game. This is fine in a game like Darkfall or Shadowbane where open pvp is among the main selling points of the game. In Xsyon, open pvp isn't even important enough to be listed as a main feature of the game, so it would be a shame if the group of players who are mainly playing the game for open pvp (PKs in particular) are free to impose their playstyle on others, effectively chasing off most of those who are just interested in all the other features that (according to the features list) are a more important part of the game.

Just for the record, I'm not opposed to open pvp. I enjoy warfare in sandbox games a lot, and being able to attack, or be attacked anyone at any time is a kind of freedom that I'd miss if it was taken out. I want the penalties for being a murderer to be harsh enough that only those that are exceptionally good at it can get away with it for long, though. Being killed repeatedly by gangs of bored PKs who have nothing to lose by doing so is a waste of my time, regardless of whether I get looted or not.

[Relandi]

Siko wrote:

I haven't seen the "I don't want to lose all my loot after hours of working" argument all that much.

It is most certainly there, though I may be blurring my memory between these forums and the cesspit that is MMORPG.com - it's at the foundation of most of their fears of open PvP.

Spawn campers/over the top griefers are a special breed of PKers (I dunno if I'd even call them Player Killers) and should be dealt with as such, by both "good" and "evil" players. As they drive away the players for the PKs to kill, as well they give PKs a bad name.

Perhaps because it's always been the norm for me to craft/harvest and PvP since UO, that I don't find open PvP a hindrance, but rather a blessing.

Jadzia wrote:

Yes, I think you misunderstood it. As far as I know an evil character can full loot anyone he killed. There will be a weight limit for the stuffs 1 person can carry, and a loot timer too. So probably full loot depends on how heavy stuffs the victim had, how fast the PKer can click, and the number of the PKers. More PKer can carry more and they can loot faster.

Mind letting me know where you gleaned that little tidbit of information? I can't for the life of me see anything to confirm full loot for anyone.

[JCatano]

Right here, Relandi:

http://www.xsyon.com/forums/28-featu...-and-decisions

[Relandi]

JCatano wrote:

Right here, Relandi:

http://www.xsyon.com/forums/28-featu...-and-decisions

Wow, I've read over that thread like 10 times (well, his post, not the thread) and managed to miss that.. Goooooooooooooo team!

Thanks. (It was the post earlier in this thread that said "carrying capacity" that made it stand out this time, lol)

EDIT: Ahh, I see what I was confusing it with - when you get into tribal warfare, the diplomacy can make it so you it's only partial looting, but that's not PKing, and thus off-topic .. but yeah.

[Jadzia]

Siko wrote:

The problem is that without pvp restrictions, those that are mainly interested in non-pvp activities are at the mercy of others when it comes to enjoying the game.

True, thats the main problem, not looting.

@Relandi
JCatano already gave you the link, and somewhere Xsyon posted about the loot timer (I'm not sure if in that thread or in another one).

[Relandi]

Jadzia wrote:

@Relandi
JCatano already gave you the link, and somewhere Xsyon posted about the loot timer (I'm not sure if in that thread or in another one).

Had already posted and responded to him prior to your edit, but thanks.

Which also begs the question - if there is a carrying capacity that is even relatively realistic, this is pretty much the same as my above mentioned partial looting, just at their discretion.

So long as Xsyon doesn't add an onscreen trash can ala DF to delete items instantly, then my above post stands true at it's core, they cannot be everywhere at once, and if you can't notice a group of several people approaching you, perhaps you deserved to get caught that time?

Siko wrote:

In Xsyon, open pvp isn't even important enough to be listed as a main feature of the game

I think that is a rather odd step in logic to me.

Jooky cared enough to make an entire post on the subject, as well in the features the tracking of "karma" "good" "evil" etc actions IS mentioned - that is open PvP in a nutshell, why would someone track those if you can't even commit "evil" acts?

[Jadzia]

Relandi wrote:

Which also begs the question - if there is a carrying capacity that is even relatively realistic, this is pretty much the same as my above mentioned partial looting, just at their discretion.

So long as Xsyon doesn't add an onscreen trash can ala DF to delete items instantly, then my above post stands true at it's core, they cannot be everywhere at once, and if you can't notice a group of several people approaching you, perhaps you deserved to get caught that time?

If you read Siko's post, he points out the main problem very well. Noone has ever complained about looting on this forum.

Siko wrote:

In Xsyon, open pvp isn't even important enough to be listed as a main feature of the game

I think that is a rather odd step in logic to me.

Jooky cared enough to make an entire post on the subject, as well in the features the tracking of "karma" "good" "evil" etc actions IS mentioned - that is open PvP in a nutshell, why would someone track those if you can't even commit "evil" acts?

Its not such an odd step in logic at all. When I first found this game, there was no FAQ, no posts from Xsyon, only the feature list and the about page. Still, the preorder link was alive, encouraging people to buy the game. And not only open PvP, but PvP itself wasn't mentioned at all. And open PvP with full loot is a game breaker for a lot of people, if that is something which cannot be avoided in the game then yes, it should be mentioned on the feature page. The logic says its not the focus of the game, its something that noone has to worry about.

In another thread you said to jesseblox: "Also to state PvP will not be a focus of the game is purely arrogance on your part."
This again only shows that you are lacking knowledge about the game, he wasn't arrogant, simply quoted Virtus.

[Relandi]

Jadzia wrote:

In another thread you said to jesseblox: "Also to state PvP will not be a focus of the game is purely arrogance on your part."
This again only shows that you are lacking knowledge about the game, he wasn't arrogant, simply quoted Virtus.

Open PvP is a core part of the game.

Virtus has never once stated (that I've read) that PvP won't be a focus - he's said it might be a lesser part, but a lesser part is still a focus..(and that lesser part comment was actually Virtus speaking about PKing, not PvP, two seperate entities) - however, that isn't even relevant to what I am discussing. You enjoy misdirecting comments and jump in at "opportune times", but don't exactly say much on key with what I am talking about.

Whether PvP is minor or major really doesn't matter as OPEN PvP is a core mechanic that is built into the entire combat system. This includes tribal warfare which IS a major part of the game (quoted on features), as well as random PvP, and PKing.

If not, we would have PvP zones and battlegrounds, such as you've hinted at in the past. We do not, and will not.

A feature does not have to be "major" to be a core - if you removed open PvP, the current Xsyon would cease to exist.

Why you want to change focus to trivialities, I dunno, so I'm going to graciously allow you to continue in monologue if you'd wish.

TL;DR - Jooky has already stated PvP will be open, whether it's major, minor, purple, yellow, is all trivial and beside the point.

[Jadzia]

Relandi wrote:

Jadzia wrote:

In another thread you said to jesseblox: "Also to state PvP will not be a focus of the game is purely arrogance on your part."
This again only shows that you are lacking knowledge about the game, he wasn't arrogant, simply quoted Virtus.

Open PvP is a core part of the game.

Virtus has never once stated (that I've read) that PvP won't be a focus - he's said it might be a lesser part, but a lesser part is still a focus..(and that lesser part comment was actually Virtus speaking about PKing, not PvP, two seperate entities) - however, that isn't even relevant to what I am discussing. You enjoy misdirecting comments and jump in at "opportune times", but don't exactly say much on key with what I am talking about.

Whether PvP is minor or major, OPEN PvP is a core mechanic that is built into the entire combat system, this includes tribal warfare which IS a major part of the game (quoted on features).

If not, we would have PvP zones and battlegrounds, such as you've hinted at in the past. We do not, and will not.

A feature does not have to be "major" to be a core - if you removed open PvP, the current Xsyon would cease to exist.

My intention with my comment wasn't to misdirect the thread, I tried to point out that you often judge people's posts while you are not aware of the setting of the game. Open PvP is obviously a core mechanic, noone denied that, but not the focus, as Virtus did say so.


Virtus wrote:

This game, while it has PVP, is not PVP focused.

If you think its something I wrote, lol, search for the sentence on the forum.