COMBAT suggestions

[MrDDT]

So you don't want toe to toe button mashing but this is what would come from your suggestion, as you agreed.

I don't agree this has to go backwards (I didn't think it was possible to go backwards, but I guess there is a way) to make it better in this case.
Just to be clear, I believe to make the combat better in this game, would simply be fix/add the things they have not removing one of the few things they have that is part of combat.


You can say all you wan't that it's a personal attack, doesn't make it true. I disagree with with your opinion on how to make it better, and if you say it's an opinion on being a good idea to change it because you used the word may, then I disagree with that opinion to change it in the ways you asked, as I already stated, and the reasons why.

The only thing close to a personal attack is the comment you made about fing off. Which you have changed, either any case I'm not upset. I'm simply expressing my opinions of how a horrible idea this would be, and that someone with as much exp as you say you would have could even suggest something like this is beyond me.

[GuideXaphan]

Moved the topic to "general discussion" as we want to keep the developer thread clean of customer topics of discussion.

Keep the discussion clean and on track or I'll clean and then lock it if it continues after removing posts.

[Hodo]

I know I don't play Xsyon anymore but I am a gamer who plays several games PvP, FPS, to full on sandboxes. So here is my two cents.

I can't agree the suggestions you listed. Slowing things down and removing things makes it seem like, every other bad MMORPG that has PvP in it. Notice I said MMORPG that has PvP in it.

Like I loved SWG-PreCU, but I hated the combat system. It was nothing more than tab targeting and macro mashing. Then there was Mortal Online, again twitch based, but it just came down to who had the better ping and who could find the current exploit fastest. Then Roma Victor, which was fun but incomplete. And now I play Planetside 2, which is just good old fashioned FPSMMO. It didn't try and revolutionize gaming it went with what works.

A game like Xsyon needs a combat system like the old Roma Victor, where it was quick and brutal, not long and drawn out. Blocking should be done in two parts.
1- Active blocking, where you actively place your shield in the way of the opponents weapon.
2- Passive blocking, where your skill in blocking randomly gets the block for you.

The passive block is meant to make up for internet latency and keep the game a game. Player skill will factor into the game but it will not matter who has the fastest internet connection or who is the closest to the server.

The attack system I would simplify just a little bit.
-remove the different levels of power in the attacks. You should always attack at full force, why would anyone in a real fight (and I have been in a few) ever swing at an enemy they are trying to kill with less than full force.
-Change the skill set so it would affect the attack speed, the higher your skill, the faster your attack will be and the more damage you will do, and you would also benefit from a reduction in stamina use.

In real life I have a good deal of experience with fights with medieval weapons, melee weapons, and even MMA. I am a US Army vet, who served in Afghanistan as a signal operator and M249 SAW gunner.


I am the one on the right and that is a real hauburk it weighs around 30lbs. The axe I am using is a hard architectural rubber head, not at all soft kind of like a dead blow hammer.

[MrDDT]

I think slowing it down would also hurt things more than help. I agree with you that the best course of action likely is make parry an on/off skill. Where you choose to parry or not. While parrying you are not attacking. It would work just like the "blocking" mode you were saying.

Yes I swing at people less than full force a lot. It's called a jab, or a feint, or when you have an opening but unable to make a full swing. Having said this, removing the charge attacking wouldn't really effect much, and I see no reason to remove it.

Changing skill to effect attack speed would only speed up the current fighting, offset in game toon skill to be more important than player skill, plus as you said the lag factor comes into play more, as you speed the game up more.

Suggestions:
Fix desync.
Add special skills.
Make parry useful. (Like when you successfully parry an attack, the attacker loses 5x energy normally would for the attack)
Add healing options.
Add group play options like party screens/chat, skills that heal/buff/aid party members etc.
Ranged attacks, even if you have to do it with melee, like a lunge.

I played Roma Victor also, and one of the best parts I liked about the combat, was the lunge attack. When done well it was very lethal but also left you open to attack if you missed.

[Hodo]

Yes I swing at people less than full force a lot. It's called a jab, or a feint, or when you have an opening but unable to make a full swing. Having said this, removing the charge attacking wouldn't really effect much, and I see no reason to remove it.

I hate to say this, but if you are throwing a weak jab you are doing it wrong. In a fight a real fight you do everything you can to end it quickly and in your favor. Wasting energy on feint or halfhearted strike, is a fools move in a real fight.

But otherwise you bring up good points but I think you misunderstand me when I talk about making the combat quick and brutal. If you remember RV you know that hitpoints didn't exist like they do here. Your attributes was everything. And fights in that could take a while or be over in a matter of seconds if it was horribly unbalanced. And honestly skills should play a large part in a fight. Just because you as a player are an uber-elite MLGtard who lives breaths and defecates twitch MMO combat, doesn't mean your less than 5 minutes old farmer who you just made is going to be any good at anything.

Remember this is a game, a MMORPG SANDBOX game, not a twitch MLG session. If you want your personal skills as a twitch combat gamer to be taken into account I can point you in the direction of several F2P shooters or hacknslashers out there where you would thrive.

[MrDDT]

You are trying to tell me that a jab is just as powerful as a full swing?
Jabs are done for many reasons, they can even knock out people however, they are no where near the full power of a full punch. Feint's are used also for very good reasons to open up the targets defenses or knock them off balance again opening up defense or putting them within reach or optimal reach of a stronger or more deadly blow.

Not all stronger blows mean they do more damage either, however, that's another topic but just wanted to point out that full power strikes are not the only reason to throw an attack. Either in boxing, swordplay, fencing or any other type of combat.

That would be like saying you should use a shotgun for combat instead of a 22 pistol. Because why would you use anything less than full power?

I don't want this to be an twitch MLG session (FYI for people that dont know MLG is major league gaming). However, I do believe removing all player skill from combat would make it boring and the game all about who is the most grinded toon or highest level. I'm looking for a mix of the 2, where both play a part. Why does an MMORPG Sandbox game mean you can't have skillful combat system? I've never heard of other sandbox games saying this or doing this, other than Wurm Online. Where littarrly you stand toe to toe and let your skills/armor/weapon give you text feedback only on how the combat is doing, without any choices or skill from the player themselves.
So I want this to be like an FPS game? No, but I also dont want to stand there and watch my toon fight for me, I want to have choices and interaction with the combat.
Roma Victor's combat system had some great points and some horrid problems. One of the major problems was balance, and 1 shot kill. Even though they are realistic (Romans were greatly better 1 vs 1 than Barbarians, due to armor and training) it's also a fun factor. People don't want to get into combat and be 1 shot by an attack, it's just not fun.
Where I would say RV (Roma Victor) did well was the manual blocking and how you faced off with your shield arm. Not only would a full active block help keep you protected, but you would use a shield like it was meant. Keeping it between you and the target would leave them with little area to attack cleanly, without it even being in active block mode.

[Hodo]

A jab is not a weak punch. A jab is a style of punch, like a cross, uppercut, or a hook. All are intended to hurt your opponent not tickle him.

And RV did not have your shield between you and your opponent, you stood there like you were a special snow flake in the exact same stance you did when you were just standing around. If someone HIT your shield then it automatically counted it as a block. I used to always say that RV needed a combat ready stance, like Xsyon has, and its combat system would have been much improved.

[MrDDT]

A jab is not a weak punch. A jab is a style of punch, like a cross, uppercut, or a hook. All are intended to hurt your opponent not tickle him.

And RV did not have your shield between you and your opponent, you stood there like you were a special snow flake in the exact same stance you did when you were just standing around. If someone HIT your shield then it automatically counted it as a block. I used to always say that RV needed a combat ready stance, like Xsyon has, and its combat system would have been much improved.

Jab is a much weaker punch than a Straight punch, which is normally your stronger fist also. Jabs are mostly meant for defense and to put the target off balance. Straight punches are stronger, and sometimes called the "KO punch" as they use your hips and stronger arm for more power.
I saying a Jab is meant to hurt them is correct, but also not the main goal, the main goal of a Jab is for other actions like a stronger attack or to defend oneself.

About the shield in RV, there was a way to block with the shield, not just if someone hit it but you could use it to block with also. Do you think that if someone poorly aims they and targets someone shield it should not hit the shield? I'm confused here.
I did a lot of combat in RV and you would line up your shield side to the target so you would be a smaller target (only your head, upper shoulder, foot, and lower leg could be hit) when you blocked you would raise your shield sightly defending your upper shoulder and head also leaving your upper leg, lower leg and foot open. Well aimed attacks would be required to hit these targets, and make it skillful. There was a "parry" and "dodge" skill that would allow you to automatically sometimes be missed even if the attacker had the correct open area targeted. None of this counted armor which would lessen an attack even causing it to do no damage.
Another thing about this combat system is you have to aim at a moving target and with someone having a shield (even when you dont actively use it) it can make the target much harder to hit.
Euna Vs Draco Roma Victor
You can see in this video because Euna has a small shield he leaves a large target for attacks. You can see Draco has a much larger shield which protects a large part of his body.