Feedback Request 08/01/2014: Farming and Cooking (Test Server)

[Dorsie]

after logging in with 82 basketry and no recipe , just to here from another person , i got them with 66 and a few baskets later.... keep on grinding , maybe they come up , i have to say , i give up
i'm talking about the new pouches, baskets
it's enough grinding allready , for what ? , i dunno actually , because there's no market to talk about , carts and bp's sell , to vets , the rest is just worthless junk nobody wants or needs
sorry , but just a waste of time , not even relaxing , no chat , no social events , nothing but grinding , and wait 30 secs for a kebab to fill 12 % of your bar ?
where's the fun ? the mmo feeling ? and don't tell me to join a tribe , because they are empty aswell
anyway , very frustrated now , might be better maybe , after all , a few month to go with my sub , lol

[Emilie]

Dorsie, join a tribe.

[Whorlok]

Look to this thread with my IDEAS for Fertilizer with Pictures
http://www.xsyon.com/showthread.php/...ll=1#post99291

[MrDDT]

I like the changes to butchering on test, based on size of animal, power, and mutant or not. Much better and makes a lot more sense. So far I was able to get 44 meat off 1 shadowbear, which seems about right to me, and a chicken gives about 1 to 3 meat. Which seems about right.
Fishing might needs a slight tweak in speeding up (maybe about 20% if it were up to me) to make it more inline with risk/reward.

So far I like the changes a lot.

Waiting for my crops to finish growing to see the yield but so far the yield would have to be huge for them to really be worth while as a food source. Currently it takes 4 to 6 guts per plant at 91 farming, 1 to 3 water uses, around 5 to 10 other actions plus the plant seed itself. In total you are looking at around 15 actions plus timer. Compared to foraging for the same food. Meaning I would have to forage 15 times and get LESS than this 1 plant does. I know you are changing the foraging rates, but my guess is that 20 foraging actions likely to yield about 10 to 40 "somethings". So that means planting would need to be at least 10 to 40 yield.

Currently foraging 20 times yields me about 80 to 120 items.

Now putting this in line with hunting, and I would say that farming likely is going to be the best source of food IF the yield is around 20ish per plant. I think cutting down the guts requirement to 1/8th like I said before and make it 1 action like watering is, that means plants could yield something like 6 to 10 each, which would be very much inline with hunting.

Of course this is all at max skill.

[wastelandstoic]

If you are able to provide details on food decay/storage I have a question. Assuming 400% reduction of decay, what is the shelf (or basket) life of properly stored food?

I know most tribes have baskets of fish and herbs in storage and if they are willing to make new baskets and assign commissaries I would hope that that would allow for a return to a relatively permanent storage capacity. If not permanet are you open to input on storage times?

Thanks

[Xsyon]

The following changes have been made on the Test Server:

Fixes
1) Fixed fertilize animation from getting stuck.

2) Corrected material counts on new pouch schemes.

3) Tool tip on scrapper's rod should display duration. (apparently this was a very old issue).

Improvements
1) Meat from animals increased based on type and size of creature.

2) Fatigue should now set in at 5% energy instead of 10%.

[Xsyon]

A few notes on the feedback so far.

Data variables such as calories and crop yields have not been finalized. I wanted to gather feedback on these first as balancing these numbers to make these systems valuable is the trickiest part (and will likely continue after the public patch).

Regarding calories per food item, I am considering two options.

1) Food items supply a different amount of calories and resulting cooked food is based on this. This would give more calories to more advanced recipes. This was the original design.

2) Cooked food items give a set amount of calories (for example 20% hunger filled) and edible raw foods give a set lesser amount of calories (1/4 to 1/2 of cooked dishes).

Currently, I am favoring option 2 for several reasons [edited to fix typo]

- The system is already complex enough I believe and adding another layer of complexity may make it too complicated. I think it's better to go simple with the calories for now and add this extra complexity if it seems that it will benefit the system in the future.

- In many instances a player may not want a high level recipe to give too many calories as they will want to switch food buffs or use food for the fast health and energy recovery more often without becoming over stuffed.

These things need to be kept in mind:

- The goal is keep your hunger level within the normal healthy range. A full hunger bar is not a goal and is detrimental.

- Consumption times can be reduced with the correct seasonings. This will allow a player to create different types of foods, for example: Foods with fast consumption (10 seconds or less) to quickly satisfy your hunger or apply quick stat buff changes. Foods with deliberately slow consumption so that you can restore health or energy quickly with one meal. Foods with slow consumption that will apply buffs that you plan to have active for a while.

- You get the same calories applied regardless of the consumption rate.

Currently, food increased your hunger bar by 12.5%. I could increased this to 25%. That would give players two meals to go from the low end to the high end of your optimal healthy hunger range.

With all the above in mind, do you players feel that the amount should be increased to 25% or kept at the current rate?

Regarding food preservation

The duration of food items has not been set yet, but I was thinking around 1 real time week for ingredients (more or less depending on the item type) and 1 week for cooked food. Proper preservation would keep food for up to 1 real time month.

I think food decaying at this rate or faster is a good thing. If food could be stockpiled forever, again the supply will greatly exceed the demand and another opportunity for trade will be missed. For now, I am carefully reading the feedback here and weighing the options.

Hunger depletion and Food per Day

One thing that is difficult for me to simulate in tests is the rate at which hunger depletes during average and intense game play and how much food a player will consume in an hour, several hours or an average day of playing Xsyon. I would like feedback on this.

Thanks for all the input so far!

[wastelandstoic]

Hunger depletion and Food per Day

One thing that is difficult for me to simulate in tests is the rate at which hunger depletes during average and intense game play and how much food a player will consume in an hour, several hours or an average day of playing Xsyon. I would like feedback on this.

Just last week I went out exploring/ hunting and went about half the distance around the lake taking 3 hours to do so. In the beginning for 30 mins. or so I foraged until my cloth pack was full of stacks of eatable plants 4-10 in number, I'd say about 80 plants of junk quality. In the 3 hours I used just about all of the plants, only a few left, to keep myself in the normal healthy recovery rate range. Same with water drank from streams.

[MrDDT]

Regarding calories per food item, I am considering two options.

1) Food items supply a different amount of calories and resulting cooked food is based on this. This would give more calories to more advanced recipes. This was the original design.

2) Cooked food items give a set amount of calories (for example 20% hunger filled) and edible raw foods give a set lesser amount of calories (1/4 to 1/2 of cooked dishes).

Currently, I am favoring option 1 for several reasons.

- The system is already complex enough I believe and adding another layer of complexity may make it too complicated. I think it's better to go simple with the calories for now and add this extra complexity if it seems that it will benefit the system in the future.

- In many instances a player may not want a high level recipe to give too many calories as they will want to switch food buffs or use food for the fast health and energy recovery more often without becoming over stuffed.

I'm confused, option 1 sounds more complex than option 2 first off, second off is that it seems like you are favoring option 2 not 1 based on the notes below.

I like option 1 better, IF not all advanced food give massive amounts of calories because 100 skill food will require 8 slots of food + 4 seasonings means it would be a massive amount of calories AKA hunger filled. I think there should be good limits for this.
I would do option 1 with it capping out at around 40% hunger filled for the most advanced cooked food. The most basic cooked food (ex. 1 fish kebab) would be about 12% hunger filled. Make non cooked items give about 3% hunger filled. IMO it should take a lot of strawberries to fill you up, but put it with some meat and potatoes and it should fill you up fast.

These things need to be kept in mind:

- The goal is keep your hunger level within the normal healthy range. A full hunger bar is not a goal and is detrimental.

- Consumption times can be reduced with the correct seasonings. This will allow a player to create different types of foods, for example: Foods with fast consumption (10 seconds or less) to quickly satisfy your hunger or apply quick stat buff changes. Foods with deliberately slow consumption so that you can restore health or energy quickly with one meal. Foods with slow consumption that will apply buffs that you plan to have active for a while.

- You get the same calories applied regardless of the consumption rate.

Currently, food increased your hunger bar by 12.5%. I could increased this to 25%. That would give players two meals to go from the low end to the high end of your optimal healthy hunger range.

With all the above in mind, do you players feel that the amount should be increased to 25% or kept at the current rate?

If you are set on this system (which to me sounds like option 2) I would increase it to 25% for all cooked items, and non cooked items down to 5%.

Regarding food preservation

The duration of food items has not been set yet, but I was thinking around 1 real time week for ingredients (more or less depending on the item type) and 1 week for cooked food. Proper preservation would keep food for up to 1 real time month.

I think food decaying at this rate or faster is a good thing. If food could be stockpiled forever, again the supply will greatly exceed the demand and another opportunity for trade will be missed. For now, I am carefully reading the feedback here and weighing the options.

1 real week sounds fine to me for raw. Cooked items should last 2x longer in my opinion. Making 1 real month for raw in a commissary and 2 real months for cooked in a commissary.

Hunger depletion and Food per Day

One thing that is difficult for me to simulate in tests is the rate at which hunger depletes during average and intense game play and how much food a player will consume in an hour, several hours or an average day of playing Xsyon. I would like feedback on this.

Thanks for all the input so far!

I use up 1 full hunger bar every hour 1 and 15mins. This means currently I have to eat every 20mins real time to keep my hunger up. I believe this is a bit to often.
While running around hunting, I seem to use up hunger much faster having to carry around a lot of food, in a 10min trip I will have to eat at least once from a full hunger bar to keep out of going into a hunger issues (lower than 20%). I believe this should be longer, water I'm ok with at the current rates.
Changing how often you eat also means changing how much % food gives per meal also.

My opinion is to slow the rate of food/hunger used by about 3x but also lower the % food gives by about 1.5x. Which is like doubling the current size of hunger food gives. I like the slower rate because less times you have to stop and eat. I like the lower % because gives a chance to use the insta healing/energy gain buffs better in common play, while still making it feel like you are eating.

[MrDDT]

While eating the animation doesn't stop right after the food timer is over, it keeps going for another 2 seconds or so.