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  1. #101
    Finished testing the new changes (not the new player thing) and I like the changes, other than the bugs or possible bugs noted above.

  2. #102
    I can confirm what DDT reported about Extract All. Using extract all give one per even with just one to start.

    I'm getting the "Too many basic flavors. Food greatly affected." message on Sous and Artisan recipes (don't have higher). This happens even with filling all the top two rows with the same ingredient, e.g. 5 onions in an Artisan recipe. Also tried 5 different flavors, 2 flavors with different ingredients, 2 flavors with 2 ingredients. It sounds like these recipes have the number of basic flavors set to 0, or the message appears by mistake. The 5 onion kabob has a 245% energy gain buff.

    What is the maximum number of flavors? Does this increase for higher recipes? This should be available somewhere -- on the cooking panels or in the tutorial (nothing I could find on cooking and farming in the tutorial).

    The number of guts from innards, and fertilizer from guts have been reduced way too much. I got 1 gut from 5 innards and 3 from one. From those 8 guts I got 1 fertilizer five times and 2 three times.

  3. #103
    Bejaymac, please patch through the launcher and check your crops now. The meshes for dead rice grass weren't properly patched as we noted in game. I just patched them so your crops should be visible.

    If something still seems to be missing, please let me know.

  4. #104
    Issues in progress:

    1) Extract all. Good catch. The extract all function was not updated. I've updated this and will restart the server with this change later (I will post when it's been updated).

    2) Fertilizer amounts. I forgot to post that charm also affects the amount of fertilizer created. Most amounts (such as scavenging amounts) are currently affected by luck which is affected by charm. The effect is slight and not noticeable enough for charm to be valuable. With fertilizer, this is the first function where I've increased the effect of charm as a first step in making charm a valuable stat.

    The only change I made from the previous update was to divide the amount of fertilizer created by two. The reason I posted 'roughly' is because the amounts get rounded off (so a previous amount of 3 could end up being 1).

    Currently fish should yield 1 to 3 fertilizer (previously was 2 to 6). Guts depend on the type of creatures, with guts from larger creature yielding more guts.

    I can again change this easily and am open to the input. Without player input it's difficult for me to determine what are reasonable amounts. I am open to feedback on exact amount ranges for the various parts (guts for different size creatures, fish) rather than going back and forth.

    3) Foraging balance. Crop plants will be set as rare before the update. As for foraged amounts, I am open to input.

    4) Flavors. I will run more internal tests on flavors and will add more information to the messages. more than 3 basic flavors should affect the recipe as will more than 2 supplemental flavors. You can also get messages such as 'too salty' etc. if you load up a recipe with all of the same ingredient.

    Flavors can be adjusted as well and I will focus internal tests on this today.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Xsyon View Post
    2) Fertilizer amounts. I forgot to post that charm also affects the amount of fertilizer created. Most amounts (such as scavenging amounts) are currently affected by luck which is affected by charm. The effect is slight and not noticeable enough for charm to be valuable. With fertilizer, this is the first function where I've increased the effect of charm as a first step in making charm a valuable stat.

    The only change I made from the previous update was to divide the amount of fertilizer created by two. The reason I posted 'roughly' is because the amounts get rounded off (so a previous amount of 3 could end up being 1).

    Currently fish should yield 1 to 3 fertilizer (previously was 2 to 6). Guts depend on the type of creatures, with guts from larger creature yielding more guts.

    I can again change this easily and am open to the input. Without player input it's difficult for me to determine what are reasonable amounts. I am open to feedback on exact amount ranges for the various parts (guts for different size creatures, fish) rather than going back and forth.
    Perhaps round up or set the guts from fish to the 2-4 range.

    Note Cha is the primary stat for scavenging, probably the most important skill in the game, if you intend to make Cha even more effective (which I am in favour of along with the bonus for INT that is also suppose to affect things like the number of schemes you can remember) I suggest start looking at paring back the role Scavenging has on the game.

    Also Scavenging is the only effective way at the moment of raising CHA, we need an alternative skill to grind with CHA as a primary otherwise you are just making Scavenging essentially mandatory.

    3) Foraging balance. Crop plants will be set as rare before the update. As for foraged amounts, I am open to input.
    Foraging should be a viable survival skill, as part of overall balancing all Resource skill need to be looked at in future to make sure that they are all as valuable as each other in the game and that none are consigned to 2nd class skills.

    Speaking of which, why not make Fire building useful by having the QL of a fire impact the time it takes to perform a cooking function. As part of this you would also need to set lighting a fire to a skill check that counts towards increasing the skill rather than skilling up being only via greenpoints or building the fireplace.


    I still think the 'death penalty' is not optimized, it's more an annoyance rather than a penalty. I would perhaps consider setting the hunger and thirst levels to 20% after death. It's low enough that people won't use it as a way of 'filling up' but long enough to run around and get things done in order to cook. (Get raw food ingredients, build fire, Get wood, light fire, cook food, eat food, get drink)
    Last edited by mmogaddict; 08-15-2014 at 11:05 AM.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by mmogaddict View Post
    Foraging should be a viable survival skill, as part of overall balancing all Resource skill need to be looked at in future to make sure that they are all as valuable as each other in the game and that none are consigned to 2nd class skills.
    No mystery here that I second this thought.

  7. #107
    A few notes to address issues brought up above.

    1) Charm. It's true that charm is valuable for scavenging. However, for whatever reasons, it's current the least valued stat by players overall (by far) and 3rd least valued (behind intelligence and dexterity) by high level players (the top 200 most active players). I determine how valued a stat is by gathering data on how often the stat is used, if the stat is boosted (by armor) and the current level of the stat across all players. Other stats (such as intelligence) do need more value. Balancing stats and skills is very important but difficult to do and will happen over time. It can't all be done in this update. It's grown quite huge as is!

    2) Foraging. I believe the value of foraging has increased greatly with this update. I don't feel that it's necessary to have foraging be an alternative to cooking. Foraging is intended as a resource skill and resource skills are intended to provide the materials and not the end products.

    3) Death hunger rates. I appreciate all the input but for now I'm going to stick to what I believe is best. From the input given it sounds like keeping the hunger and thirst rates low after death will provide an impetus for players to be prepared before they go adventure (and risk death) rather than race against the clock to prepare a meal after they die and revive. I think that's good.

    Preparation is as simple as having some cooked food in your inventory, or simpler yet, stocking up on cooked food (either cooking it or if you're really adverse to even simple cooking, trading for it) once per month and keeping it at your tribe or homestead, where you end up after death anyways.

    4) Fire building quality. It's a good suggestion and I've put this on my list for future improvements. Fire building is meant to be expanded and there also will be different types of cooking using different equipment. That's all for future updates though.

    5) Energy and health rates. Just to make sure this is clear, there are two bonus types: Gain and Rate. Gain bonuses are high (can be 400% or more) and apply ONLY while you are eating the food. These provide fast health and energy recovery (healing). Rates are lower and apply over time. They are intended more for overall recovery rate increases while adventuring.
    Last edited by Xsyon; 08-16-2014 at 05:26 PM.

  8. #108
    The Test Server is open with the following changes:

    1) Flavor system corrected and messages revised.

    2) Saving and loading of current buffs when the server restarts set up properly.

    3) Extract all updated to match the extract function.

    4) Tool tips added to health and energy rate buffs.

    I'm still looking for more feedback on:

    1) The proper amounts of fertilizer from guts and fish.

    2) proper amounts on foraged plants found.

    3) Can crops with full tending reach 100% maturity within a reasonable time before the plant expires?

    I am looking for feedback on the these so that I don't go back and forth raising and lowering amounts and guessing what 'feels right' in game.

    Thanks!

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Xsyon View Post
    A few notes to address issues brought up above.

    1) Charm. It's true that charm is valuable for scavenging. However, for whatever reasons, it's current the least valued stat by players overall (by far) and 3rd least valued (behind intelligence and dexterity) by high level players (the top 200 most active players). I determine how valued a stat is by gathering data on how often the stat is used, if the stat is boosted (by armor) and the current level of the stat across all players. Other stats (such as intelligence) do need more value. Balancing stats and skills is very important but difficult to do and will happen over time. It can't all be done in this update. It's grown quite huge as is!
    Agreed, just pointing out that it is something that needs to be addressed in future patches.

    Out of interest, I assume when gathering metrics you ignore all the low level alts we have for things like tribe expansion? Due to the whole point of many of these is to just to get from point A to point B and join a tribe or plant a totem as fast as possible so would be max str/fort/agil and high spir. For example of my 25 accounts, 21 have CHA/INT of around 10, I also don't actually use any of those 21.

    3) Death hunger rates. I appreciate all the input but for now I'm going to stick to what I believe is best. From the input given it sounds like keeping the hunger and thirst rates low after death will provide an impetus for players to be prepared before they go adventure (and risk death) rather than race against the clock to prepare a meal after they die and revive. I think that's good.

    Preparation is as simple as having some cooked food in your inventory, or simpler yet, stocking up on cooked food (either cooking it or if you're really adverse to even simple cooking, trading for it) once per month and keeping it at your tribe or homestead, where you end up after death anyways.
    The only downside to this will be casual players or players coming back from breaks, any food that they may have may be gone due to decay (homesteaders in particular). But if it becomes a problem it can be adjusted later.

    4) Fire building quality. It's a good suggestion and I've put this on my list for future improvements. Fire building is meant to be expanded and there also will be different types of cooking using different equipment. That's all for future updates though.
    Looking forward to it!

  10. #110
    Bottom text line in farming display is too short by four characters when plant is "Ready to Harvest."

    The flavor system messages are a huge improvement. Still took a while to get straight between supplementary flavors and secondary ingredients. Seem to be getting more burnt food failures than in last release. Artisan Recipes and below have maximum supplementary flavors set to 1.

    Well tended plants, even with no fertilizer are maturing before they die. Fertilizer makes the plants mature sooner, ready to harvest with 20 days left of growing with 4 fertilizer at planting. The no fertilizer plants were at 100% (displayed as 1 due to truncation) with 5-6 days left and harvestable for several days more.

    Fertilizer seems to have minimal effect if any on yield if harvested at 100% maturity. E.g. 16 yield with 1-4 fertilizer, 13 and 16 yield with no fertilizer. I would like to see fertilizer have a bigger effect on yield and a smaller effect on how fast the plant matures. As it stands fertilizer just increases the window when a crop can be harvested.

    With hunting 92.3, agility 90.9, dex 84.7, charm 97.2, supreme knife, I'm getting less guts per innards than on production. On production the guts/innards ratio seems to be based on the power of the critter, but I'm not sure since power doesn't display on innards. With rounding, most small game has gone from 2-3 guts to 1. If fertilizer continues to have minimal effect yield, I suspect this will effect bonecrafters more than farmers. On test the amount of fertilizer per guts is 3 for big game (coyote, raccoon, deer, bear), 5 for mutant big game, and 1 for everything else including small mutants and dogs. I suggest making this 2 for dogs (and possibly marmots, martins and cats) and 4 for the non-big game mutants.

    It will be hard to judge the amount of foraged plants found until we can tell how rare crop plants will be. At 100 forage I find something every time over eligible terrain. My alt with 22 forage finds something 20-25% of the time. Quantities are about the same. The recent change to make everything found edible made foraging too powerful vs fishing. As it is on test now, foraging is roughly equal to what it was at launch with edible crop plants replacing plants like lomatium that are no longer edible. Making crop plants too rare could make it hard on newbies to survive on just berries. Being able to cook and eat what you kill will make up for this for new survivors, if there are more small critters to kill in low and medium danger areas.
    Last edited by thurgond; 08-17-2014 at 02:36 AM.

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