01/30/2015 Multi-Story Building Discussion

[Pwnuts]

how will this change bring new player to the game? i mean new player wont come after this patch is (maybe) implemented, because of the change. also new player who join wont even take note of this since they dont know how it worked in the past. keep of new players will be worse couz they can see things players builded up in the past which they are not able to do anymore.

i think it decrease the creativity of bouilders, and i count myself tho those who are building a lot of difficult things as well. the new system is no math anymore, its lego.
i also see issues about ppl who currently work on a project, as i do. icecold does, i'm sure there are a whole bunch who do, on both servers. their projekt will mess up for a few reasons:
1. as you can see on testserver, dropping from a roof wont work anymore -> you now cant build with 4m distance, to make buildings fit, you need to do it by 4,3m
2. you wont be able to place walls exactly in the spot where you need them, you need to have them 0,2m outside the roof to make them fit ( as you have to if you dont drop )
3. you cant leave ghosts to check, you need to build, dig dirt away, and build the next stories. any misstake means you have to dig dirt up by 4m again + trouble with buildings who block you terraforming.

IMHO, the new system is a step forward, couz we have new possibilitys, especially that we can ( if its not a bug on testserver right now ) move projekts into the underground and still build them which helps us to create a "kind of" furniture. But the old system should still work in the same way as it did. both together would be a great additional implement. messing the old one and adding the new one without compormisses, in respect of what players builded up over past 5 years is just rude. i know the old system was not supposed to work as it (still) does, and ppl found a way to make multiple story buildings. now we officially gone do the same with limitations we didnt had before. there are 3 ways to finish it:

1. remove all old floating areas, also big housings without any architecture below a floor. that would mess with the vet players and i'm sure the game will loose a bunch of them this way. but it would satisfy the new player who wouldn't cry that there are building which they can not rebuild in their tribes.

2. keep the floating areas, get lots of crybabys who get pissed that there is stuff they can not rebuild. satisfaction for veteran players - newbs instead of vets will leave the game.

3. the only way which make sense, keep the old system, at least keep it working like this and add some new features which are already done ( move stuff up, move stuff faster, add colors to the ghost, add the frames and such ) to satisfy everyone and keep the stuff ppl builded up over years.

some may not have recognized that if floating areas are not possible + removed anymore, they will see all their big housings on the ground. not just my treehouse or willowhawks projects. unless you putted a wall/post under each floor.

[Mactavendish]

Yes that's true that it will affect a few peoples projects. BUT... let's be very honest and say that it may affect 4-6 individual players not a "bunch".

All of us want to leave our mark on the game and what we leave as buildings are in a sense, our legacy from playing here.

This is however, just an online video game we play for entertainment. The bottom line for the developer is to provide his players things that will make the game fun for them to play, and mechanics in game to let that happen. All games need to grow and change over time, and from the very start Jordi have said this game would be doing that. To stay with the old system that depended on tricks, unintended exploits like drop building, and unnecessary huge piles of dirt, is NOT going to help this game move forward.

New players don't stick around do to the tedious nature of building here. I say this with authority, since it has been the stated reason some of the Pawnee members that have left gave as the reason for leaving. Shoot I took a break at one point for that reason when i realized just how much work a project I had in mind would take.

I cannot believe though, that I or any other player can predict how all the vets will react to the coming changes. It is a sad thought to me that some would quit over a few buildings that are hanging in open space falling to the ground with this new system. To me, that just provides me with another opportunity to show my skill, when i figure out a new way to do that again, or maybe ( gasp ) do something even more amazing.

New players will certainly be helped out with this new system, and if any vets really have issues with it then I would like to offer to help them come up with something even more amazing than they had before... because, not will will be much easier to build than ever before!

Well done Mr. Davis for this vast improvement!

[MrDDT]

Any of you that know me, know that building is my main passion in xsyon.

Up to now the thing that has been most limiting on my creativity is the need to resort to tricks like drop building and the need to pile up huge mounds of dirt to make anything cool. All of these issue disappear with the new system!

I have been working with it and have to say that I really believe this is one of the best steps Jordi has taken in his working to improve the game play. The system makes it very easy to build complex and creative structures.

What this new system does is actually free up the builder to dram and layout much more complex and creative structures than has ever been possible before. It will also allow for much "cleaner" looking buildings, better use of the parts already available and will lead to using basic parts in much more creative ways then ever before.

I firmly disagree with those saying it will limit a builders creativity. Those that are making those comments admit they are not passionate about building, I as one of those that IS passionate about build, look forward to these changes with great excitement.

However, I know some will disagree, but I think this is going to lead to MORE people joining the game and MORE enjoying the game than now, and won't lead to people quitting.

Can you please list 1 way it adds MORE? Or allows for something I currently can't do? I would love to see it. I've tested it and its currently less a lot less.
If "cleaner" you mean no more overlapping, yep I agree it removes overlapping. Which means you have LESS options.

I do agree it does make it easier to build basic multistory buildings, but so far I can't see the "more" option. Only less. Like try putting a post right next to another post where they are 1/2 way inside each other. Or try making a tent where it's cutting through the floor so you can access the top of it through a floor.

[GuideIsrafel]

To those of you who are worried about multistory buildings with large floors, Xsyon will be seeing more than the current supports, there will be larger 8x8 or even 16x16 supports that will not clutter larger floors. It should also be noted that current buildings will NOT be affected by the changes, the only case they would be affected is if they were dismantled and in this case they would need supports if above ground. It's also important to note that you will be able to clip building parts down into the ground allowing for further customization than the current system.

[Bejaymac]

Well it's pointless discussing the "merits" of a system that for me doesn't work, I can't get any of the Banaya blueprints to build, I can place the ghosts no problem, I can even get all three colors, gray/yellow/red, I can even add the mats and tools to them, but the gray ghosts just give "invalid location" when I try to build them, which is stopping me from building any of the yellows.

Now I hope it's an "easy" fix, but going on experience from my game moding days, don't be too surprised if some of those "features" your "discussing" get removed as a result of the fix.

[Pwnuts]

Maybe Jordi could announce the date these changes will hit the live servers at least a few weeks before he implements it to give players a chance to finish any current drop arch projects.

Sark

+1 Sark.
at east to be fair

since some architectures will become unique, a new setting for member ranks would be a good solution to keep those.

"dismantle" ( only own architectures )
"dismantle all" leader + ppl who get this rank.

[Dabent]

One more thing the long time players get the new one will never see. No more bridges, no more tree houses, no more over hanging decks, no human bones, no scrapper carts on and on and on.
If you don't want new players just say so, we'll leave, we wont re-sub. I love this game but looking forward to what the others have is pointless. You will just take it out of the game before the I/new players get a chance to try it.
Ohwell it's your game you are going to do what you want.

[MrDDT]

+1 Sark.
at east to be fair

since some architectures will become unique, a new setting for member ranks would be a good solution to keep those.

"dismantle" ( only own architectures )
"dismantle all" leader + ppl who get this rank.

Goes even beyond this, we need the option to trade/sell building parts.
If you make something for the tribe as a leader I would like to control that. I don't want later you are a member to any time you choose able to tear down a piece that never can be built again, or cause other objects to fall.

[Xsyon]

What this new system does is actually free up the builder to dram and layout much more complex and creative structures than has ever been possible before. It will also allow for much "cleaner" looking buildings, better use of the parts already available and will lead to using basic parts in much more creative ways then ever before.

Correct. One of my main goals here is to allow players to lay out and visualize their designs in full without hassles and dirt piles before actually building.

New players don't stick around do to the tedious nature of building here.

Again, you are right and I should have realized the negative impact of the current building exploit and replaced it with a proper system much earlier. I can't go back in time though, so we'll move forward and make this update allow for as much customization and flexibility as possible.

One more thing the long time players get the new one will never see. No more bridges, no more tree houses, no more over hanging decks, no human bones, no scrapper carts on and on and on.

Please read my top post in this thread.

Bridges, tree houses and cantilevered decks will not only be possible, they will be much easier to build than before. The only difference is that these parts won't be floating unrealistically, they will be supported by frame structures. As stated in the top post, I just need to see what situations players want to be able to build and I can add parts to accommodate these situations.

The situation that you are worried about: new players seeing cool buildings and not being able to build the same is exactly what has been going on for years now. The 'drop method' exploit is not readily apparent. It's been used by a very small fraction of players.

This update is going to open up multi-story building to all new players, not just the 1% that currently have learned to use the tedious 'drop method' bug.

Thanks again for the feedback so far!

[wastelandstoic]

Over all this seems like a reasonable addition/change to the building system especially since you have taken the time to give us some of the metrics behind you decisions. Yes, as a long time player there is some reticence about having to learn a new system having spent 2 years figuring out how to build the kinds of structures I wanted to build under current conditions but, your merits for the new system and willingness to leave all current structures as they are does alleviate most of that. In asking for the kinds of structures the community wants to build (that now do not have supports) you listed tree houses, hanging decks and bridges. These are the only ones I'm currently aware of that we would like to continue to be able to build. Do you want specific images or do the 3 TYPES you have listed cover what you are asking for at this time?

One other concern; with the drop method no longer available putting storage structures (canopies & smoke house) inside buildings will no longer be possible or at least much more problematic. Will it be possible to get some kind of structures (whether arch or woodworking i.e. --furniture) that can be placed inside buildings? (That, I assume, would have to ignore collision?)

I look forward to having the time to try out the new system which most likely will not be until it has gone live.
Thanks