01/30/2015 Multi-Story Building Discussion

[Xsyon]

Please note: This update is in progress and that's why it's on the Test Server for feedback. This is not a final build.

There are restrictions in place right now that are in place only for testing while I make sure that placement and collision is working properly.

Thanks for the feedback!

[Pwnuts]

since you added what i was suggesting about the roads next to buildings, is it possible to go back to this again and add something which worked well in the past but has changed too. currently its not possible to add roads connecting to limestone surface anymore. would be nice if you can implement it to the patch too. thanks!

[Dabent]

Frames drop into random places while trying to move causing things to be "stuck" and then have to delete items and frame then start over. I was trying to see if I could get a ramp in a frame or a frame on a ramp and well that just caused headaches. I want to build a way to the 3rd floor but with no ramps inside of frame I do not see this as possible at the moment. At least no in a "stairwell" configuration. Long ramp on outside of building yes but ramps in a small building no.
This has happened a lot. When i try to move a frame over something , sometimes it just goes over it other times it drops into what I am trying to go over and then it is stuck, must delete to move on.
Are the corner frames supposed to be working? I can't get them to sit next to each other. Has a good meter or 2 between them but tells me I can't move because the other corner is in the way.

[Mactavendish]

Been working hard to see if I can make the second story have floors and then roof sections on top.

So far it's impossible.

I know you are working to get collision right, and maybe this has been addressed, but what't the point of a roof on a frame if you cannot slide in flooring on top of the frame too.

Please explain how you invision this working.

[Xsyon]

The Test Server is down for now. I need to patch out a lot of meshes so that all parts can be tested properly (not just Banaya parts).

I will post again when I'm ready for further testing.

A few comments on the above questions:

Regarding both a floor and a roof on top of a frame: This should work fine but for currently only with all Banaya parts. This will change with the next test server update.

Regarding frames dropping into stuck positions: I will need to reproduce this. Did this happen with all Banaya parts or a combination of a Banaya frame and other parts?

Regarding building situations: After the next test server update, if there are any building situations that you would like to achieve but currently can't build with the updated system, please post a description, a location on the test server and a screenshot if possible. These changes are in progress and there are just two situations that I need to prevent: building parts merged with other parts and floating parts with no type of support. New parts can be added to allow for more building situations to be accomplished.

Thanks for the feedback!

[Bejaymac]

@ Dabent, the "stairwell" is the ramp issue I posted about both in this thread and the tech issues thread, it's just not possible without having frames get in your way.
As for things dropping down and becoming stuck, it sounds like you have "Snap" selected in the movement window (little green tick).

@ Mactavendish, if your using anything else other than Banaya then you will have issues, the collision on the non modified architecture is about 1.5 meters off, so they just wont work. With all Banaya the floor should slip into the area between the bottom of the roofs/frames "legs" and the rope that runs around the projects.

[Mactavendish]

I feel compelled to comment on this thread.

It is very hard to feel compasion for the players complaining about how this new system will remove the ability to make things like walls in walls, tents inside buildings, and the "drop building" technique. Those complaining feel it takes away from their ability to build and be creative.

Ok, I am NOT trying to stir up anyone, but seriously folks that's not very honest.

Let's analyze what is being said here...

To remove the drop method, is to remove an exploit that was a work around at best and DID lead to lower frame rates for most players. The resulting buildings were often shoddy looking due to pieces not aligning correctly and sometimes even looked goofy with wood parts sticking out of masonry. To me personally it looked like what it is... and unintended exploit that didn't work. Sure it allowed you to build storage structures ( buildings with slots ) inside other structures that were not intended to have storage, but honestly folks it's and exploit.

And the need to build from the top down is unlike ANY other building game out there, and the need to pile up huge mounds of dirt was a huge turn off to most new players. I say that with great confidence due to what the evidence shows. Look at any big tribe that has lots of fancy 2, 3, or more story buildings and you will see that they were ALL made by 1 or 2 players not diff names on each one. This means that the majority of builder types never got into building here at all. Some carzy people like myself did, but I have lots of patience, sadly very few others have that.

The new changes will allow any new player to easily place and build very complex buildings, and never have to spend a lot of time setting up. This WILL lead to many more builder types enjoying building here and no doubt lead to much better retention.

The real issue is that the veteran players that are used to the other exploit, and this will force them to change how they build.
Every time this sort of change happens in an online gaime those used to the old way will complain and threaten to quit, but the fact is that Jordi wants this change, and never intended people to use the "drop" method to build. The mere fact that the pieces collide with each other tells you it was not intended. Now that he has gotten to where he can provide a proper building system, you want to complain now?

I for one feel this is a very good step in the right direction, and that it will have much better appeal to the new players and will lead to more players not less.

[MrDDT]

I'm not saying that changing it bad. I'm saying it's not adding anything to the game other than ease of building which can be done in other ways.
Also it's taking months away from other content.

2 things about your statements about 1 or 2 people building the larger tribes. First it,s false. It's normally more than 2+ for large tribes, I can list tribes if you wish, but your tribe and my tribe is one of them.
Second is the fact that the limited number of people building in tribes is more limited to the fact of other issues of ownership of buildings being able to be dismantled by the owner, not due to few people wanting to build. I've been asking for better options for this for a long time, and you will STILL see this issue with or without this current change.

The top down and dirt mount building was an issue. The drop placement is an issue due to rendering issues/mesh. Removing massive amounts of creativity from the game is a poor option when building is the focus of the game.
But hey, what do I know? I hate building anyways have it. Waste months of dev time to change something we already can do.

I think it would have been much easier to simply make it where people can terraform 10x faster.

[Bejaymac]

Not a vet, and with my place being slightly offset thanks to a totem "reset" I can't drop build nor jump build, the ghosts always land that little bit off from everything else.

I for one am glad we are getting these changes, it'll take away some of the headaches from trying to build stuff in my offset tribe.

However I'm an ex game modder and I know a thing or two about collision detection, so I'm doing the same thing to this new system as I did to my own mods as well as the mods of friends I helped test, and that's to try and break it.

That's why I've gone on about the issue between ramps/platforms and frames, with what we had on test an internal stairwell could only be two ramps high, if you want to go higher you had to move the ramp for the next floor to a different part of the building, but even then you still have the issue of support for anything above the first two ramps.
The only other way was to build all of your "stairs" on the outside of the building.

Being able to place ramps/platforms inside a frame would end that problem, but I don't think that would be an easy thing to do and still have the frame acting as support for everything above it.

A dedicated "stairwell" would probably work better, a 4x4x4 with 4 posts in the corners to act as visible supports, with a 2x4x4 stair model (or ramp) on one side, and set it up to support itself as well as frames and roofs.

[wastelandstoic]

The only pressing question/ concern I have about the new build system is: Once implemented, How do you plan to introduce the new support structures into the game?

If they are only introduced as new blue prints that will effectively reset all players (regardless of Arch skill) back to zero with regards to anything but single story construction. I'm hoping that based on Arch skill and/ or the types/ amounts of structures players have already learned the support structures will be given/ added to our existing, known Arch menu.