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  1. #1

    07/07/2015 - Melee Combat Recommendations?

    Hello everyone,

    As most of you know I am working on a complete revision to creature AI, path finding and variables. These changes will affect combat and I can revise combat considerably, if needed, while undertaking this big 'creatures' task.

    Recently I've started to briefly check out games that players have recommended or have mentioned as being similar to Xsyon.

    The melee combat that I've seen so far is unimpressive to me. The basic systems I've seen so far are:
    - Abilities assigned to keys (1,2,3,4) as in Warcraft, typically with a most effective 'rotation'.
    - Simple mouse click to swing and attack.
    - Mouse click to swing and attack with additional key press abilities.

    Our current system was coded mostly by two programmers brought on to create a more involved melee combat system similar to Mount & Blade. I do realize there are issues with the system, especially due to latency. With the current revisions in progress I hope to eliminate or at least greatly reduce the problems. Still, a complex system of directional swings and charged attacks may just not be realistic for a game with players connecting to one server from locations around the world.

    So, at this point, I would like to hear from you players.

    Are there any MMOs (in particular, sandbox MMOs) that have melee combat that you really enjoy? What aspects of these systems do you most enjoy? What aspects of these systems would you change?

    For now I'd like to look at melee combat only and focus on fun PvE combat, but keeping PvP in mind.

    Make some recommendations and I will check them out. Thanks!

  2. #2
    For me the melee combat in Mortal Online was the best i ever had in a mmo.

    You have an energy bar based on your stats, able to block or swing you weapon, and the energy bars goes down.
    No more energy -> stop fighting or run away and your energy bar fills up again.

    With mouse click and a key you was able to swing left or right, or block left or right.
    Of cause hit and block rate depends on the weapon you have in left and right hand.
    Last edited by Kyosa; 07-07-2015 at 01:28 PM.

  3. #3
    Look into a game called "Life is Feudal: Your Own", their combat system is... interesting to say the least and far to in depth to explain it with just words.

    There are a great many aspects of the combat in LIF that are appealing, and even more of them relating to PvP. If Xsyon would implement their combat system anywhere close to that game it would be impressive.

    I am glad you addressed the issue that latency was a problem with melee combat, but in the new system will elevation be factored in at all? I would highly recommend putting a check in place that uses the Y axis... for obvious reasons. I would recommend the use of hit boxes (if they are already there, then their bounding boxes need tweaked), or at least a modified version of a RayCast system which would be relatively "basic" but a good starting point for an overhaul.

    Anyway, definitely check out that game if you already haven't.


    ~ Tefached

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Xsyon View Post
    The melee combat that I've seen so far is unimpressive to me.
    We could maybe change some charackter animations, and for sure fix the ranges of weapon types. but the combat isnt a big deal atm. creatures should work. thats all.

    would like to see a bunch of skills back in te game we miss since about 2-3years. like polearms and such. maybe adding shields to the equipment slots whcih yould work additional to parry and block, also allow a player to protect the durability of his armor.
    i'd rather see you keep the xsyon style than copy any other game.

  5. #5
    While I go through periods of trying out other MMO's nothing I have ran across has kept much interest for me for several years. I enjoy xsyon's combat system and have become accustomed to it. I would hope any changes would be minimal to the feel that we have now.

    I have not played Mount & Blade or Mortal Online but I did try LiF-YO. I had the opposite reaction than that of Tefached. Combat and character animations in general felt very stiff and much more restrictive that Xsyon. To me it seemed like the character graphic was a cardboard cutout with no real reactions to what was transpiring with combat or other interactions. I did play early after release and not very long so my exposure was limited.

    If it's decided to reduce some of the directional range of attacks and on the fly charging for a simpler system, perhaps a high, middle low attack/ defense system with an adjustable slider for charge could benefit Xsyon?

    I recently revisited the first MMO I played back in 1999, Asheron's Call, and while its graphics are period I do like many of the skills/ combat system mechanics. Here is a skill that effects combat attacks based on the level of attack -Hi, Med or low:

    http://asheron.wikia.com/wiki/Dirty_Fighting

    And, while I certainly don't want a WOW type multi-button punch-out, rotation some static added bonuses at the goal post levels in each weapon skill would be welcomed. (Also, a balancing of the blade and club skills with picks and axes so all are viable. And, yes, I liked all the other weapon/ defense skills that we use to have. Would love to eventually see swords as well.)

  6. #6
    I think the best system to go would be a World of Warcraft typical style. 1234.
    Due to the lag issues I've seen I believe this would be the easiest to go about changing into. I would much rather focus on other coding things than worried about lag and other issues that come with Mount and Dlade, LIF, and Darkfall/Mortal style combat systems.

    Give us special attacks, and powers with faith. I'm not asking to jump around shooting fireballs. Just saying make some special skills and attacks.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by MrDDT View Post
    Due to the lag issues I've seen I believe this would be the easiest to go about changing into. I would much rather focus on other coding things than worried about lag and other issues that come with Mount and Dlade, LIF, and Darkfall/Mortal style combat systems.
    Have you experienced lag and desynch issues with those other games? If not, they are worth checking out to me. More info on this would be appreciated.

    One reason I've started checking out other games is to see how they resolve desynch. As explained in the creature desynch thread, if a command like a jump or swing takes 500 ms to travel from one player to the server to another player (even ignoring processing time), there is a 500 ms visual delay between players.

    There are definitely ways to work around this delay. For example, some games will send a command from a client to the server, the server then sends it back to all nearby players. This system does a much better job of synchronizing actions between players, but can feel sluggish for the client initiating an action. I believe that Darkfall does something like this with their 'momentum' system as it felt to me that actions were delayed based on my ping (the delay was more noticeable to me when connecting to a EU server).

  8. #8
    Elder Scrolls online combat though laggy sometime is my favorite. you have the single and heavy attack with blocks as well. It also implements a few skills on the bar but not enough to make things too complex. You get to pick and choose based on your playing preference which in my opinion is the biggest draw as I fell my character is my own and not some cookie cutter build. The hit boxes are really awkard in that game though so the mount and blade elements and smaller hit boxes might fix that.

  9. #9
    Here in UK i get 125ms ping, it means combat is almost unworkable for me invisible mobs kill me, people are running on the spot in front of me while actually behind me attacking me in the back and if i am loading a new zone and anything attacks im dead before i find out there is even a threat =(

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Hero View Post
    Here in UK i get 125ms ping, it means combat is almost unworkable for me invisible mobs kill me, people are running on the spot in front of me while actually behind me attacking me in the back and if i am loading a new zone and anything attacks im dead before i find out there is even a threat =(
    Maybe there is something wrong with your connection ?

    I live in the UK also and my xsyon ping is NEVER below 140 and pve combat has always been fine for me.
    occaisonally mobs rubber band but thats about it.

    pvp combat is a little different as most players are in the usa and they get a ping of 30 to 40, compared to my slower 140.

    Sark

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