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  1. #31

    Combat System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Xsyon View Post
    Hello everyone,

    As most of you know I am working on a complete revision to creature AI, path finding and variables. These changes will affect combat and I can revise combat considerably, if needed, while undertaking this big 'creatures' task.

    Recently I've started to briefly check out games that players have recommended or have mentioned as being similar to Xsyon.

    The melee combat that I've seen so far is unimpressive to me. The basic systems I've seen so far are:
    - Abilities assigned to keys (1,2,3,4) as in Warcraft, typically with a most effective 'rotation'.
    - Simple mouse click to swing and attack.
    - Mouse click to swing and attack with additional key press abilities.

    Our current system was coded mostly by two programmers brought on to create a more involved melee combat system similar to Mount & Blade. I do realize there are issues with the system, especially due to latency. With the current revisions in progress I hope to eliminate or at least greatly reduce the problems. Still, a complex system of directional swings and charged attacks may just not be realistic for a game with players connecting to one server from locations around the world.

    So, at this point, I would like to hear from you players.

    Are there any MMOs (in particular, sandbox MMOs) that have melee combat that you really enjoy? What aspects of these systems do you most enjoy? What aspects of these systems would you change?

    For now I'd like to look at melee combat only and focus on fun PvE combat, but keeping PvP in mind.

    Make some recommendations and I will check them out. Thanks!
    I am partial to the combat system in Elder Scrolls Online. I think it would work good in Xsyon.

  2. #32
    Jordi, I believe the games have already been mentioned. Elder scrolls, the repopulation, Neverwinter etc. etc....Anything that is active targeting and the ability to double tap direction keys to dodge would add IMMENSE enjoyment to the combat system. The game is already a blast just building stuff, if combat were improved, people would be even more addicted. I know its hard for me to pull myself off Xsyon and will usually sink 6-7 hours a day into it.

    Games like Mortal and Life is Feudal are also good. Basically active targeting with the ability to hold the A or D keys to side swipe or swing upwards. This could be difficult though for casual gamers. So I think the basic style of active targeting with a reticule in the middle of the screen and just clicking the left or right mouse keys to attack like it is now is fine. I said in one of my gameplay videos that once you go to combat mode, the screen should zoom in a bit like an action 3rd person shooter with your character slightly to the side so the enemy is in the middle of the screen. This makes the combat more cinematic.

  3. #33
    I am late to the party as usual, but I would like to add my two cents. I prefer my character's skills being the key to successful combat. Success shouldn't depend on my twitch abilities. I hate the move to action based combat in MMO's. Give me stats, modifiers, and a random number generator. If there is going to be targeted combat, just let me click where I want to hit the creature. The current swing system makes me stick to hunting fish.
    Last edited by Danfrey; 07-23-2016 at 04:32 AM.

  4. #34
    I like the combat the way it is now.

    I not even sure new players realise how it works.

    Its a AIM and Swing system,

    Unlike in WOW where the mobs have just one target and you click to select it and never lose the lock till its dead or till you click off it.

    Xsyon is much more involved a large mob has multiple targets on different parts of its body. You have to aim at those parts and hit them with full swing power.

    So fighting a small mob like a rat means you have to aim low. Im sure the reason why new players miss small mobs is because they havnt grasped the fact you need to aim your camera. Your toon will bend over to hit small mobs othewise you hit over it and miss it completely.

    What I would change is make it a bit clearer where you are hitting the mob. The combat log is ok but a bit old school.

    Id like to see something on the game screen as well as the comabt log, some sort of graphic effect that shows you which part of the mob you hit and for how much and the same for when a player is hit. Sort of like when you go into VATS mode in Fallout, the different targets of a mob are outlined. I dont mean slow motion just the visual effect of seeing which target you just hit.

    I have no idea if this could be implemented in the game engine, I get the impression it that it couldnt.


    I wouldnt like to see the wow style of combat in xyson.


    Sark

  5. #35
    There is no Z axis in hitting a mob, you don't have to aim up or down to hit it.

    You can be standing on a wall and a mob at the bottom can hit you, same with PVP. A play can hit you even if you are 10 stories up. Which is also why you can not walk under another player correctly.

    Yes you do need to aim side to side when you swing, but up and down you do not.

    The main reason I want a change in the system is because to get the system working better you would need to code a lot of changes, and lag will still effect you.

    Why reinvent the wheel? Xsyon isn't combat focused, so why not just bring in some basics to combat. Skills for attacks, healing system from other players and self healing (bandages), etc. Do something easy like a target based system which makes ranged combat super easy to code. Work on balances instead of trying to figure out a new combat system from scratch, when there is very limited coding and not even a main point of the game.

    Just think of how long it will take someone good with coding to come up with a fully new system (Xsyon's combat is not like any other game really) all the while it's not working and a lot of coding resources are put into that place. Or do very fast easy coding on a system that's been around forever like a tab target system. Have it in place until a lot more coding time can be done for combat, if it even needs to change.

  6. #36
    Here in UK i get 125ms ping, it means combat is almost unworkable for me invisible mobs kill me, people are running on the spot in front of me while actually behind me attacking me in the back and if i am loading a new zone and anything attacks im dead before i find out there is even a threat =(

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Hero View Post
    Here in UK i get 125ms ping, it means combat is almost unworkable for me invisible mobs kill me, people are running on the spot in front of me while actually behind me attacking me in the back and if i am loading a new zone and anything attacks im dead before i find out there is even a threat =(
    Maybe there is something wrong with your connection ?

    I live in the UK also and my xsyon ping is NEVER below 140 and pve combat has always been fine for me.
    occaisonally mobs rubber band but thats about it.

    pvp combat is a little different as most players are in the usa and they get a ping of 30 to 40, compared to my slower 140.

    Sark

  8. #38
    Hero for sure sounds like a lag issue. But Sark you also have to understand this should never happen in a game. If someone is lagging that bad then other factors would prevent them from playing and need to get it fixed. You should be dead from invisible things and dead before you load a zone.

    Zone loading has been an issue in this game from day 1. Also desync in combat is massive vs players, and vs mobs it's still an issue. Just as you said you can even see rubberbanding. A game with hitboxes and active parry will never work with these issues.

    I can be attacked in PVP from over 12 meters away in melee combat when should only go about 1 to 2 meters away. This isnt just an issue with realism (I mean who can hit someone in melee from 3+ meters away?) but also playable combat. If I think I'm dodging someone because on my screen it looks like I am, but on their screen they are right up on my back hitting me. It's a major issue. This has been a problem the whole time.
    I also feel like the playerbase for Xsyon is not going to embrace this style of combat so why worry about it? I think having a cross breed of ESO style combat would do the best for everyone. It gives the feel of action targeting combat with the issues of lag and desync going away.

    FYI I also have a 5ms or lower ping to the server and I can see desync and lag. I live in Dallas, TX on a fiber 1000MB/s connection. Pretty sure the servers are now in Dallas, TX also.
    MrDDT



    "Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."
    -Sun-tzu


  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by chojinuk View Post
    Maybe there is something wrong with your connection ?
    Sark
    I have a fiber line of around 70mbps or something similar so if it is my line i am being robbed lol, i reset my pc and its a little better now and i dont know what Jordi did but my ping for first time ever has started dropping below 125 to 100 - 120 (usually a steady 125ms unless i leave tribe) so it IS improving

  10. #40
    Thank you for all the suggestions. Over the past year I checked out combat in all the games suggested (that were still active) and many more.

    Of the games I played, I enjoyed melee in combat in Elder Scrolls Online the most although I wasn't impressed by any system. Most games had much simpler melee combat than what's currently implemented in Xsyon.

    What I'm doing Xsyon is setting up temporary options so that we can test various types of melee combat to see what is feasible and what works best. Once I'm ready for public testing I will open a new thread.

    I'll close this thread now. Thanks again!

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