Developers view of how PvP should operate?

[mrcalhou]

With all the discussion and arguing regarding PvP rules and consequences, is there already a post made by the developers regarding how they envision PvP, and by extension the economy, to work?

I was hoping that they would implement a system that is reminiscent of Eve-online:

High equipment turnover, necessary crafting materials for higher end gear that are only found in certain, limited, locations, and the need to fight over control of these areas.

Situational balance of player roles: Older characters get access to more and different equipment, but not necessarialy "better." That is, new players can fly frigates and perform support roles, but their damage to larger vessels is minimal. And larger ships that can't be piloted by newer players have a harder time hitting the smaller ships. This way there is always a use for somebody regardless of their character age or stat level.

Variation in weaponary. This is basically for the same reason as the above point. New, different, but not necessarialy better. Just different. Also, stronger, higher-tiered weapons ARE stronger, but only marginally so. The difference can make a difference, but wouldn't always do so. This weapons also require much, much rarer materials to make. So the cost to use might not be worth it, in light that they could be destroyed or looted during combat.

I would envision a game that is spread out horizontally with regard to the spread of skills, and items, such that it looks like this (Edit: It doesn't format it spread out like I typed it):
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There is still character growth and development. The character can do MORE things. But the character isn't necessarily becoming more powerful. Yeah, the bigger ships, that take time for players to be able to use, can do more damage, but they also have a harder time actually hitting smaller vessels. This means that they can be used for different roles. Small vessels are used to damage small vessels, or debuff larger ones. Larger vessels are used to damage other large vessels.

To compare this to Darkfall, in that game one of the things people complain about is that vets are too powerful. I've played the game and character and item growth is like climbing a ladder. You become more and more powerful but you still occupy the same role. Items only increase in power, not so much in utility. Growth in that game looks like:

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This model is good for single player games, but not so much for a game that has competitive aspects like an MMO.


What I'm trying to get at is that there are examples of games that work, like Eve-online, and games that don't really work that well, like Darkfall. Both games have their pro's and con's. As much as I love the systems in Eve, the point and click combat is so mind-numbingly boring to me that I can't bring myself to play it. Whereas, I like Darkfall's combat, but I don't see any long-term reasons to play. The economy is dead.

[joexxxz]

WE DONT NEED EVE SYSTEM HERE. !!!!

And please do not make that u need to be a certain level to wear the gear. Thats old style games..

In RL you can wear any gear u want, if u have *money* for that

[mrcalhou]

Illmaculate wrote:

Does this help? It's crazy old, and you've all whined for seven months straight, so I'm not sure how relevant this is anymore.

http://xsyon.com/forums/28-features/...-and-decisions

Basically, the problem at the moment is no one seems to know how it will work, including the developer.

Thanks!

joexxxz wrote:

WE DONT NEED EVE SYSTEM HERE. !!!!

And please do not make that u need to be a certain level to wear the gear. Thats old style games..

Would you mind stating why you wouldn't want a system like Eve has? Saying "we" don't need it in caps lock doesn't really say anything, ya dig?

I sort of agree with you on equipment requirements. I think I'd like a system where there are minimum requirements to begin to start getting additional benefits from equipment. Edit since it might not be clear: What I meant is that players could use all equipment but not get the ful benefits of using it until after a certain threshold is reached. I'm a HUGE fan of players having options.

After reading that link, even though it's a few months old, I'm really worried that the game is going to get flooded with equipment and then the economy is going to stall and crash which will make crafters nearly pointless, rendering strategic holding of land (resource nodes) unnecessary.

[Xx1327]

joexxxz wrote:

WE DONT NEED EVE SYSTEM HERE. !!!!

And please do not make that u need to be a certain level to wear the gear. Thats old style games..

In RL you can wear any gear u want, if u have *money* for that

in RL you cant wear any armor you want. being able to maneuverer in in leather armor is a lot different than in full plate.

i think having the stats affect how well we use different armors would be great, while also having a certain skill for that armor

example: i can put on junk plate armor but i'm very slow and sluggish in it due to my low strength and dexterity and can't do much in it( not used to it) because i have a low junk plate armor skill. now i raise my junk armor skill and now i can start doing more advance things like dodging &c. and over time my stats go up and i can use this armor more effectively.

a system like this could be used for multiple things.

[mrcalhou]

Xx1327 wrote:

joexxxz wrote:

WE DONT NEED EVE SYSTEM HERE. !!!!

And please do not make that u need to be a certain level to wear the gear. Thats old style games..

In RL you can wear any gear u want, if u have *money* for that

in RL you cant wear any armor you want. being able to maneuverer in in leather armor is a lot different than in full plate.

i think having the stats affect how well we use different armors would be great, while also having a certain skill for that armor

example: i can put on junk plate armor but i'm very slow and sluggish in it due to my low strength and dexterity and can't do much in it( not used to it) because i have a low junk plate armor skill. now i raise my junk armor skill and now i can start doing more advance things like dodging &c. and over time my stats go up and i can use this armor more effectively.

a system like this could be used for multiple things.

Yes! Thank you for stating what I was trying to. I think this would be a great system.

[Virtus]

Xx1327 wrote:

joexxxz wrote:

WE DONT NEED EVE SYSTEM HERE. !!!!

And please do not make that u need to be a certain level to wear the gear. Thats old style games..

In RL you can wear any gear u want, if u have *money* for that

in RL you cant wear any armor you want. being able to maneuverer in in leather armor is a lot different than in full plate.

i think having the stats affect how well we use different armors would be great, while also having a certain skill for that armor

example: i can put on junk plate armor but i'm very slow and sluggish in it due to my low strength and dexterity and can't do much in it( not used to it) because i have a low junk plate armor skill. now i raise my junk armor skill and now i can start doing more advance things like dodging &c. and over time my stats go up and i can use this armor more effectively.

a system like this could be used for multiple things.

This will happen minus the junk plate armor skill bit.

Why would the game get flooded with equipment? As equipment breaks new items will need to be made.

[mrcalhou]

Virtus wrote:

Xx1327 wrote:

joexxxz wrote:

WE DONT NEED EVE SYSTEM HERE. !!!!

And please do not make that u need to be a certain level to wear the gear. Thats old style games..

In RL you can wear any gear u want, if u have *money* for that

in RL you cant wear any armor you want. being able to maneuverer in in leather armor is a lot different than in full plate.

i think having the stats affect how well we use different armors would be great, while also having a certain skill for that armor

example: i can put on junk plate armor but i'm very slow and sluggish in it due to my low strength and dexterity and can't do much in it( not used to it) because i have a low junk plate armor skill. now i raise my junk armor skill and now i can start doing more advance things like dodging &c. and over time my stats go up and i can use this armor more effectively.

a system like this could be used for multiple things.

This will happen minus the junk plate armor skill bit.

Why would the game get flooded with equipment? As equipment breaks new items will need to be made.

If rate of equipment generated is > rate of equipment removed from the game, then, the market gets flooded. This would be very bad. Thankfully all the equipment used in this game will have to be crafted by players, so at least crafters won't get shafted by equipment dropped from mobs too.

Since this game is heavily group and tribe focused there likely won't be much of a market outside of tribes for items except for solo players looking to buy crafting materials and equipment from tribes. I think that it would be better, on long-term replayability, if tribes are continuously having to make the better stuff. Having an excess of common equipment wouldn't be so bad.

I URGE any game developer looking to build a player-driven game to read up on Eve. I don't think that everything with that game is perfect, but there are definitely many, many things in that game that work regarding economy, pvp, pve, the skill system, and most importantly the way they interact with each other. There is a reason that that game is consistently gaining subscribers while other player-driven games are losing subscribers.

[Venciera]

I do feel there needs to be some really cool items to craft, but at the same time they can't be OP. If you had weapons, or abilities that did relatively the same amount of damage, but had special properties like "Poison Axe does damage over time" That would be cool. Or a club with knock out properties that would disable a player. Special armor properties would counter these adverse conditions or perhaps do the opposite.

A tribes religion would be a good indicator of how to counter what magic, or special properties their items use. So tribes would be scoping out what items they use, and rituals they perform.

[Xx1327]

i think we're forgetting to take in account tribe alignment. this aspect could have effects on items(certain weapons &c) also causing more trade between tribes and use of strategic trading(more dynamic economy)


there are already many mmo and RL examples of armors countering things like

a club with knock out properties that would disable a player.

so "special armors" wouldnt be needed

padded/leather


i think another awesome and different addition would be creating a system that gave players who, perhaps, picked a more defensive path and have the ability to gain small defense bonuses against attacks used the most on them(learning) or a small resistance to certain blows on areas. pretty much an adaption skill. the possibilities of it would be great

[Trekkan]

Back to the topic of PvP, I'd like to see something like Fallen Earth's Combat system. I'm not so sure about the PvP part really, but the combat itself I liked.

Basically each weapon has whatever stats, these affect a targeting view (no tab targeting for attacking), as you "aim" with it, it get's smaller and when you click "to swing or shoot or whatever", depending on where that target is located, the size and your weapon, you hit or miss and do whatever damage (or not).

This makes things like headshots more devestating, but arm shots could disarm someone, make their own attack take longer... leg shots, slow them, whatever.

Anyway, the system works great and it's in the same viewpoint as Xsyon so it'd "work" in that sense anyway.