Land, totems, and the coming launch - My thoughts.

[Dubanka]

im just curious...have you explored much? when i walk up high, or on the back sides of the mountains its basically completely unpopulated...

[Redemp]

A lot of those areas are unsuitable for someone to place a totem , they lack resources and land suitable to build on. I understand many people will suggest that not everyone will be able to place on or near junk, but I do not believe that is an adequate response to people desiring a location near a nessecary resource. Junk is going to evaporate very quickly when the game launchs and securing a location where you can harvest some of it is absolutely nessecary for a tribe.

Edit :
I have spent days exploring , so its not a question of me just not understanding what is currently available.

[neestas]

A lot of those areas are unsuitable for someone to place a totem , they lack resources and land suitable to build on. I understand many people will suggest that not everyone will be able to place on or near junk, but I do not believe that is an adequate response to people desiring a location near a nessecary resource. Junk is going to evaporate very quickly when the game launchs and securing a location where you can harvest some of it is absolutely nessecary for a tribe.

Edit :
I have spent days exploring , so its not a question of me just not understanding what is currently available.

There's way more suitable land to build than most people think. Yes, some of it is not very resourcefull, but talking about lack of suitable to build land? Grab a shovel and explore terra forming a bit.

[Redemp]

There's way more suitable land to build than most people think. Yes, some of it is not very resourcefull, but talking about lack of suitable to build land? Grab a shovel and explore terra forming a bit.

Lands value is determined by the resources avaliable to it, the mountain areas which I was commenting on not only don't have access to those resources but also are on land unsuitable to build on. Terraforming the hill of a mountain in order to place the basic foundations for a tribe is not an acceptable rebutal.

I have also spent countless hours terraforming, and I asure you its not as simple as planting a totem and "grab a shovel" ... it takes finese to level a plot down, many hands, and many hours to "build out" an area suitable to base at.

[neestas]

Lands value is determined by the resources avaliable to it, the mountain areas which I was commenting on not only don't have access to those resources but also are on land unsuitable to build on. Terraforming the hill of a mountain in order to place the basic foundations for a tribe is not an acceptable rebutal.

I have also spent countless hours terraforming, and I asure you its not as simple as planting a totem and "grab a shovel" ... it takes finese to level a plot down, many hands, and many hours to "build out" an area suitable to base at.

It's by no means easy and yes, it takes hours of work. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Are you aiming to build a shack from scrap metal and be done? In such case you don't really need land. If you plan to build a village... Then you need shoveling. Simple.

Lack of scrap in certain zones is noticable, yes. And that's a good thing too imho. A bit of wilderness and places where you'd be able to find animals to hunt rather than 1 totem per scrap pile which are 3-4 per zone and fireplaces each 50 meters is good. Furthermore, it increases competition for the "good" zones. This is not farmville. And that's good.

Now obviously the big question... Is currently available map enough for the release? Fuck knows. Will see on launch day and couple weeks after.

[Chavoda]

Sorry did you border to explore at all? speaking of current "beta" theres open spots all over the place, specialty for homesteads. most tribes spots are taken around the lake but there are way way more junk piles scatters around whit perfect spots for tribes.

Now some extra zones would be nice, makes it a little less crowded but a need for it there is not. Being a little crowded aint bad also, makes homesteads join tribes as tribes will guard the pile next door for them selfs if there ain't to much.

[Redemp]

Sorry did you border to explore at all? speaking of current "beta" theres open spots all over the place, specialty for homesteads. most tribes spots are taken around the lake but there are way way more junk piles scatters around whit perfect spots for tribes.

Now some extra zones would be nice, makes it a little less crowded but a need for it there is not. Being a little crowded aint bad also, makes homesteads join tribes as tribes will guard the pile next door for them selfs if there ain't to much.

As I stated before .. I did explore. I also cross refrenced known areas with google maps to determine possible resource rich areas , in addition to exploring most of the mountains just for hunting. You are misguided if you think we will see open spots all over for placement come launch give the current map size. I am speaking on tribe placement in regards to this thread , obviously homesteads will require less and thus be able to place in areas less suitable for a tribe.

[Redemp]

It's by no means easy and yes, it takes hours of work. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Are you aiming to build a shack from scrap metal and be done? In such case you don't really need land. If you plan to build a village... Then you need shoveling. Simple.

Lack of scrap in certain zones is noticable, yes. And that's a good thing too imho. A bit of wilderness and places where you'd be able to find animals to hunt rather than 1 totem per scrap pile which are 3-4 per zone and fireplaces each 50 meters is good. Furthermore, it increases competition for the "good" zones. This is not farmville. And that's good.

Now obviously the big question... Is currently available map enough for the release? Fuck knows. Will see on launch day and couple weeks after.

I wondered who would be the first to bring up the difficulty as a point of contention. It is not a matter of difficulty, I think we can all agree this game does not cater to those looking for an easy ride. It is a matter of practicality and survival for a newly placed tribe. I understand that you can build on land with no resources and survive , I also think this is impractical and not the design direction or desire of the Dev team.

Increasing the map size would also spread the populous out a bit, which would in turn reduce the necessity we see now of placing in the centralized junk rich zones. This is not farmville , I'm not sure why you brought that up, but you are correct. Increasing the size of the map available on launch, thus increasing the spread of the population and availability of necessary resources does not make the game easier, nor does it turn it into Farmville.

You are also correct that there needs to be areas without junk piles, those areas are best suited to hunting and logging. This however does not weigh into the necessity for more areas with access to some of the resources needed, and the undeniable need to spread the population out.

[jcapde]

Dunno if you're aware of this OP but the usable land isn't confined to the shore around the lake. I took a strole up a mountain this morning and on the other side, there's a huge area (looks just as big as the lake area itself) with water and junkpiles everywhere. I didn't go all the way down so for all I know there might be an invisible wall somewhere on the way that blocks you from going there.

[tredo]

The land is big enough... I have spent a real life year traveling this map... there are areas that are perfect for tribes high in the mountains, that is at least 300m wide and as flat as a table top, lots of animals, trees, grass, water and open sky... yes it does lack a junk pile. Junk piles will not last forever... most tribes do not consider where they will be in a year from now... or even 6 months. What happens when the junk is gone, the towns are built, and we hear the calls... "theres gold in dem der hills!" A new dawn will rise and the shift to mining, rail systems, lumber mills, farming, taming - animal farms, medicine and all kinds of future ideas.. and these tribes are stuck next to a dried up hill that used to provide them with the parts they needed to "get started." The crowd is surrounding the lake because they think they need to.... this is not at all true. Go outside of your "got to have my village built in a week" mindset find a place that will suit your needs now, and for many months. Spend some time thinking outside the box of what this game has and instead think of where this game will be in a year from now. The game is built for us to develop IT... not for it to develop us. Xsyon has already said, he is open for ideas and feedback... this is a game for the gamer by the gamers.... not a game being shoved down our throats and us being told "you will play the game this way or not at all!"

I have seen some small tribes above 800m high, there are small junk piles high in the mountains at the end of some roads. The area is nice, the resources are plenty (especially if your the only one using it) and these kinds of areas will do very well in the future I have a feeling because they will have the future resources at hand.

To build in the mountains does take more work, I will give you that... we all know from RL that mountain men are a different breed of men... they have their own way of doing things.... this can be true in this game as well. Live off the land is a mountain mans motto. This can be true here as well.

Here is my recommendation; make the nature skills require less "junk" for example... redo the crafting slightly. A bear bone armor set requires screws and allot of them... why? In the past they did not build heavy armors with screws why are we?

Why does grass armor require junk?

Why does leather armor require junk?

Why do wooden walls require nails?

Why can we not make mud paste for our rock walls from dirt and water? Why do we have to have sand? So a rock wall could be limestone rock + mud paste = rough rock wall.

There are things that can be done to not force a tribe to be near a junk pile. This would cause more tribes and new players to be able to get away from the lake some, to spread out and make homes elsewhere. The land is big enough! Go look for a place outside the box!