Do you really want another DF or MO?

[Salvadore]

ILL JUST CROSS TAG!!!

favor - pve side.

That way I can just abuse the system forever without real risk. Best of both worlds.

[orious13]

I'm gone for two seconds and you all start talking about analogies....

[ColonelTEE3]

I'm gone for two seconds and you all start talking about analogies....

Im gone for two weeks and the same discussions are being had.

[AndyI]

These are the same old arguments that are pretty much going nowhere.

People are saying what 'carebears' want, not them saying it. Bottom line is that the hardcore PVP'rs need to stop deciding what others want and actually listen to them.

1.) Reward without risk is pointless. (Everyone here wants crafting to be meaningful and valuable and that means rare resources that everyone can fight over)
2.) Rare resources will not be in safe zones
3.) Safe Zones are tiny and people cannot be online 24hrs a day to protect stuff (EVE was the perfect example of this where 0.0 space would change hands all the time unless you had a mix of players from all timezones and results in massive alliances because otherwise it doesn't work, EVE has stations in 0.0, yes a safe spot!) so unless you have banks etc. you cannot play unless you're in a large tribe where things can be defended, get real. Something has to be safe somewhere for when you're offline.
4.) To travel is unsafe and 99% of the land is PVP, what's wrong with that? Why must it be 100% PVP? Once the world gets more populated there will be no shortage of people to attack. I just don't get the all or nothing polarisation. Some of you really need to apply a little more common sense.

Nobody here is anti PVP or we simply would not have subscribed to this game. Most of us want PVP and most of us want risk vs reward and a Sandbox environment but like many I'm fed up of these silly arguments accusing most of the player base of being PVE carebears when it's just nonsense.

What would happen if you go away on holiday or even just for a weekend and come back to find your homestead had been raised to the ground because it only took a moderate amount of time to be destroyed? You wouldn't have a homestead and everyone would only join large tribes (actually many just wouldn't play). No choice there. They have said the new areas will contain rare resources and be contested areas so why the fuss.

Those that decide to stay in the Lake area still have to risk PVP to travel but those of us that wish to venture out into the new areas risk everything, how does that benefit one play style over another, it doesn't. This game is a PVP game but that doesn't mean it has to be some silly free for all because RL gets in the way. I'm with the devs, balance is the way to go. The game could not survive as a pure PVP only gankfest pure and simple but nor can it survive with PVE only. Currently the game is balanced more towards PVP (once it's working better that is) and anyone who has subscribed subscribes to the game on that basis. I cannot see an argument for change over what Jordi has stated. After all we have no PVE only zones in this game at all which would be considered safe zones.

Added after 8 minutes:

I'd like to also just point out that the vast majority of these threads are started with titles like 'Safe zones must go' etc. not 'Safe zones must stay' so I'd like to know how that's Carebears trying to force how the game is created when actually the vast majority of these threads are started by the hardcore PVP players. Ironic really when most of the posts state that's it's 'Carebears' trying to get thier own way.

Just as in RL Politics, it's the Vociferous minority shouting down the rest. Think about it. Does anyone seriously think someone will remain subscribed to this game if they never left thier homesteads or tribe land?

[Dubanka]

These are the same old arguments that are pretty much going nowhere.

People are saying what 'carebears' want, not them saying it. Bottom line is that the hardcore PVP'rs need to stop deciding what others want and actually listen to them.

1.) Reward without risk is pointless. (Everyone here wants crafting to be meaningful and valuable and that means rare resources that everyone can fight over)
2.) Rare resources will not be in safe zones
3.) Safe Zones are tiny and people cannot be online 24hrs a day to protect stuff (EVE was the perfect example of this where 0.0 space would change hands all the time unless you had a mix of players from all timezones and results in massive alliances because otherwise it doesn't work, EVE has stations in 0.0, yes a safe spot!) so unless you have banks etc. you cannot play unless you're in a large tribe where things can be defended, get real. Something has to be safe somewhere for when you're offline.
4.) To travel is unsafe and 99% of the land is PVP, what's wrong with that? Why must it be 100% PVP? Once the world gets more populated there will be no shortage of people to attack. I just don't get the all or nothing polarisation. Some of you really need to apply a little more common sense.

Nobody here is anti PVP or we simply would not have subscribed to this game. Most of us want PVP and most of us want risk vs reward and a Sandbox environment but like many I'm fed up of these silly arguments accusing most of the player base of being PVE carebears when it's just nonsense.

What would happen if you go away on holiday or even just for a weekend and come back to find your homestead had been raised to the ground because it only took a moderate amount of time to be destroyed? You wouldn't have a homestead and everyone would only join large tribes (actually many just wouldn't play). No choice there. They have said the new areas will contain rare resources and be contested areas so why the fuss.

Those that decide to stay in the Lake area still have to risk PVP to travel but those of us that wish to venture out into the new areas risk everything, how does that benefit one play style over another, it doesn't. This game is a PVP game but that doesn't mean it has to be some silly free for all because RL gets in the way. I'm with the devs, balance is the way to go. The game could not survive as a pure PVP only gankfest pure and simple but nor can it survive with PVE only. Currently the game is balanced more towards PVP (once it's working better that is) and anyone who has subscribed subscribes to the game on that basis. I cannot see an argument for change over what Jordi has stated. After all we have no PVE only zones in this game at all which would be considered safe zones.

Added after 8 minutes:

I'd like to also just point out that the vast majority of these threads are started with titles like 'Safe zones must go' etc. not 'Safe zones must stay' so I'd like to know how that's Carebears trying to force how the game is created when actually the vast majority of these threads are started by the hardcore PVP players. Ironic really when most of the posts state that's it's 'Carebears' trying to get thier own way.

Just as in RL Politics, it's the Vociferous minority shouting down the rest. Think about it. Does anyone seriously think someone will remain subscribed to this game if they never left thier homesteads or tribe land?

did you actually read any of the thread before posting?

the main problem right now is the vocal ultra carebear contingent does not agree with most of your points.
1. they see no reason why they should risk anything. as they believe you making a choice to incur the risk and thus deserve no extra reward for taking, and they definitely shouldnt be penalized for not taking it.
2. They don't see any reason why they shouldnt be, or at least they shouldn't be able to locate safezones in the immediate vicinity of the rares.
4. not sure i've heard anyone mention travel...since currently there is no need to.

[orious13]

Im gone for two weeks and the same discussions are being had.

Touche...Touche...

[Jadzia]

Im gone for two weeks and the same discussions are being had.

This discussion has been going on for 16 months. I do wonder if it ever ends....

[AndyI]

did you actually read any of the thread before posting?

the main problem right now is the vocal ultra carebear contingent does not agree with most of your points.
1. they see no reason why they should risk anything. as they believe you making a choice to incur the risk and thus deserve no extra reward for taking, and they definitely shouldnt be penalized for not taking it.
2. They don't see any reason why they shouldnt be, or at least they shouldn't be able to locate safezones in the immediate vicinity of the rares.
4. not sure i've heard anyone mention travel...since currently there is no need to.

Yes I did but got bored half way through it because the argument never moves forward. You're all like broken records not giving an inch to either view instead of applying some common sense. You mention the ultra vocal carebear community but most of the posts are in response to PVP arguments that go to the other extreme end of the argument about there should be no safe zones etc. and a few people do not make the entire community. The posts come about because everyone is always starting an argument by being polarised one way or the other in response to posts by those opposed to them. The devs have said they want balance and the sooner everyone gets used to it, the better.

[MrDDT]

Yes I did but got bored half way through it because the argument never moves forward. You're all like broken records not giving an inch to either view instead of applying some common sense. You mention the ultra vocal carebear community but most of the posts are in response to PVP arguments that go to the other extreme end of the argument about there should be no safe zones etc. and a few people do not make the entire community. The posts come about because everyone is always starting an argument by being polarised one way or the other in response to posts by those opposed to them. The devs have said they want balance and the sooner everyone gets used to it, the better.

Difficultly vs Reward.

[AndyI]

Difficultly vs Reward.

Absolutely.

But you only have to look at Salvadore's posts, he talks about the game being moulded by the 'Carebears', what complete utter nonsense. The game until recently hadn't moved on much from last year and some of us didn't just join in Feb this year so the goal of the game hasn't been moved on by anyone significanltly in any direction. Yes we have safe zones, oh right 30m in the whole game world. Like I'm going to sit in my safe zone and do nothing and never leave it. Some people need to stop saying what others think and actually listen for a change.

This game has only just started to see some actual features and is laughable that anyone has significantly changed this games direction to this point. Once this is a game and it has more features then and only then might you have an argument if it has been watered down but from every post I've read of Jordis, his overall goal has not changed, just some never actually read them. But in the abscence of game mechanics something had to be done and that was safe zones. Prelude people, the definition was the build phase prior to everything else. The only thing I've seen the community have much impact on was the addition of more trash heaps.

The state of this game is due to the old devs taking Jordi at his word. Until it has more features it's not really even a game yet and people are arguing before anything has been added. Why don't poeple actually wait and see what the direction is before shouting that this group or that group are getting their own way. Like a bunch of bickering children.