The Best way to handle macroers

[ac1dtrip]

I reread your posts. Macroers perceive that they are getting or will get some gain for macroing. Otherwise, they wouldn't macro. I am speaking of unattended macroing here. These include skill grinding, scavenging, and sorting. We know macroers are doing these things.

If they perceive no benefit, now or in the future, to doing so, why are they risking a skill rollback and possibly even a ban to do it?

The same way they believe there is or will be a benefit, those of us who do not macro believe there is or will be a benefit to macroing unpunished.

I do not dispute that someone who is online will receive more of a benefit of someone who is offline. I do dispute that someone online not macroing will receive more of a benefit than someone who is online macroing attended or not unless they are VERY adept at creating elaborate macro's.

The risk that I can see is simply they cannot play as much as others and they are infact trying to keep up with those that have the joy or curse how ever you want to look at it of playing more often.

[ifireallymust]

I do not dispute that someone who is online will receive more of a benefit of someone who is offline. I do dispute that someone online not macroing will receive more of a benefit than someone who is online macroing attended or not unless they are VERY adept at creating elaborate macro's.

The risk that I can see is simply they cannot play as much as others and they are infact trying to keep up with those that have the joy or curse how ever you want to look at it of playing more often.

1. Strawman argument. Very few people are online as often as I am. Therefore, any failure or success of mine to keep up with or exceed the gains made by macroers is the exception, not the rule. And just to be clear- when I was a full time student and full time employee I played an extremely grind intensive game and never even considered macroing to catch up with people who had more time to play.

2. Let's have a look at your assertion that "MMO's are probably one of the least "Human-oriented fields". Again, a strawman argument. They are still human-oriented. We who play them are still perception and emotion driven. We would not play them if we were not! Imagine playing an MMO from a purely logical perspective. First, close your eyes and remember your best MMO moment. Is there any emotion attatched? Certainly. MMOs gain us nothing in the 'real world', therefore, it's not logical to spend time playing them. They are in fact an escape from the real world. Logical beings would not need such an escape at all. Take emotion out of playing and look over your shoulder as you build. "Using my mouse and keyboard, I am operating this image on the screen that resembles a human being. I am clicking the mouse and the keyboard to put two more images into a box. I am adding two more images. I press a button with writing on it. An image appears in another box. It resembles a hammer." Take emotion and perception based in emotion out, and all MMOs are completely pointless!

[Delvie]

Considering the small dev team I appreciate the fact that they concentrated on performance issues for the last few weeks. Considering the fact that the guide system is manned by volunteers (who better not be able to ban players) not sure there is enough manpower to police for macroers properly. In addition, whatever solution is proposed must accomodate those who are disabled. All the folks rushing to level up to end game will soon be buying the tshirt and moving on.

Besides the fact that the big concern appears to be combat skills - combat system is in process of being reworked - wouldn't surprise me at all if all combat skill levels are reset once the new system is implemented. Actually that might be the best way to handle it.

[ac1dtrip]

1. Strawman argument. Very few people are online as often as I am. Therefore, any failure or success of mine to keep up with or exceed the gains made by macroers is the exception, not the rule. And just to be clear- when I was a full time student and full time employee I played an extremely grind intensive game and never even considered macroing to catch up with people who had more time to play.

2. Let's have a look at your assertion that "MMO's are probably one of the least "Human-oriented fields". Again, a strawman argument. They are still human-oriented. We who play them are still perception and emotion driven. We would not play them if we were not! Imagine playing an MMO from a purely logical perspective. First, close your eyes and remember your best MMO moment. Is there any emotion attatched? Certainly. MMOs gain us nothing in the 'real world', therefore, it's not logical to spend time playing them. They are in fact an escape from the real world. Logical beings would not need such an escape at all. Take emotion out of playing and look over your shoulder as you build. "Using my mouse and keyboard, I am operating this image on the screen that resembles a human being. I am clicking the mouse and the keyboard to put two more images into a box. I am adding two more images. I press a button with writing on it. An image appears in another box. It resembles a hammer." Take emotion and perception based in emotion out, and all MMOs are completely pointless!

You win. I don't even know where to begin with this. Nothing of what I asked was learned. Nothing new was learned. Continueing on with my life as normal.

Considering the small dev team I appreciate the fact that they concentrated on performance issues for the last few weeks. Considering the fact that the guide system is manned by volunteers (who better not be able to ban players) not sure there is enough manpower to police for macroers properly. In addition, whatever solution is proposed must accomodate those who are disabled. All the folks rushing to level up to end game will soon be buying the tshirt and moving on.

Besides the fact that the big concern appears to be combat skills - combat system is in process of being reworked - wouldn't surprise me at all if all combat skill levels are reset once the new system is implemented. Actually that might be the best way to handle it.

+1 agreed Devs are doing a great job.

[ifireallymust]

Considering the small dev team I appreciate the fact that they concentrated on performance issues for the last few weeks. Considering the fact that the guide system is manned by volunteers (who better not be able to ban players) not sure there is enough manpower to police for macroers properly. In addition, whatever solution is proposed must accomodate those who are disabled. All the folks rushing to level up to end game will soon be buying the tshirt and moving on.

Besides the fact that the big concern appears to be combat skills - combat system is in process of being reworked - wouldn't surprise me at all if all combat skill levels are reset once the new system is implemented. Actually that might be the best way to handle it.

I agree %100 about the dev team's focus, Delvie. But the OP wasn't asking for anything from the dev team. The OP was asking players to report macroers. Since then, the thread has, as ac1dtrip pointed out, devolved into semantic gymnastics on what is macroing and has gone in circles.

Suffice to say, nothing anyone has said since the OP will deter me from reporting a macroer if I see one. It's not up to me what will be done with said macroer after that.

Added after 5 minutes:

I agree %100 about the dev team's focus, Delvie. But the OP wasn't asking for anything from the dev team. The OP was asking players to report macroers. Since then, the thread has, as ac1dtrip pointed out, devolved into semantic gymnastics on what is macroing and has gone in circles.

Suffice to say, nothing anyone has said since the OP will deter me from reporting a macroer if I see one. It's not up to me what will be done with said macroer after that.

Fascinating phraseology. Neither directly blaming yourself as communicator nor me as the receiver of the communication. Diplomatic of you, if a bit obvious.

But go along, you're off the hook. We're having a communication breakdown in that the point you're trying to make is obviously not getting through to me. However, I've no doubt that you have less time in your day than I do at the moment to clarify your arguments. Have a good day, sir. Oh, and by the way, for future reference, I'm a ma'am!

[Belight]

I'm a ma'am!

OMG, are you hot?

[ifireallymust]

OMG, are you hot?

Exceedingly.


Edit- Macroers need a mini-game to keep them interested? Okay, got one for them. Dig a bear pit. Stock it with invincible bears that can't escape (no one can dig them out, either, otherwise, it's the first thing someone would do!).

Put a totem in the middle of the pit.

Bind macroers to the totem, then teleport them into the bear pit. The macroers have to die a random number of times before they are released from the bear pit and allowed to return to their totem. Logging out won't help. Nothing they can do except die repeatedly and hope the rng god has mercy on them will get them out of the pit. And of course they lose attribute points and skill points when they die. But give them a sporting chance. Say, the longer they manage to stay alive before a bear eats them, the better the chance is that their next death with respawn them at their own totem.

Put the pit in a central area of the game, and it provides entertainment for people passing through. Someone would probably build a trading post there, too. Maybe have it near the proposed arena pvpers have spoken of building.

[Belight]

Make the bears visible and I'll actually agree with you for once.

[ifireallymust]

Make the bears visible and I'll actually agree with you for once.

Sure they're visible, just not killable. Reread. Invincible=unkillable.

But quite visible. Massive and ugly, too.

[Belight]

Sure they're visible, just not killable. Reread. Invincible=unkillable.

But quite visible. Massive and ugly, too.

Oh, I misread as invisible.