Non Violent forms of PVP

[Sirius]

Well you have me wrong then if that is what you think I am. Not that I expect you to realise as you don't know me. While I have tried to remain general about things I have been accused of aiming things directly at people when I haven't and in your post above had a finger pointed directly at me. If by association you think anything is directed at you then I can't really take the blame for it.

It's plainly obvious that your comments have been directed at us. This "if the shoe fits, wear it" BS is just that -- a BS excuse.

Well strictly speaking PvP is whatever the game designers allow. If they don't allow it then no, those things are not PvP but seen as griefing.

No one here is talking about using tactics that have been banned, but you seem to be campaigning to get the devs to ban tactics you don't like.

[maelwydd]

It's plainly obvious that your comments have been directed at us. This "if the shoe fits, wear it" BS is just that -- a BS excuse.

lol I make a comment (post 20 if you care to check) about how it is only those that abuse a system that actually force it to be changed and since then, certain individuals have taken it upon themselves to assume it is reference to them. That isn't my fault. If I shout "Wolf!" and you say "Yes?" don't accuse me of pointing the finger!

No one here is talking about using tactics that have been banned, but you seem to be campaigning to get the devs to ban tactics you don't like.

Actually the entire thread has been about this very thing. The OP started by coming up with ways he could pervert the INTENT of the system to intentionally "HURT PEOPLE". As was pointed out early on, those actions could be seen as being against the TOS (post 5 by someone who obviously wants full on PvP). Since the start the argument has been trying to point (or at least I have) out that the reason these changes are made if because people abuse the systems in place for selfish gain without realising their actions will force the developers to chamge the game. Not because people complain but because, if a game developer has a deisgn for a system in place and it doesn't work, they have to change it. If these people used a bit of self moderation then the system could be open and requiring few mechanical restirictions to control PvP. But some people don't, abuse the system, and force the game to be changed.

So please do not ever say it is people complaining against those that abuse a system that forces change, as it is actually to people crying the most about the changes who are usually the cause of the change. If that happens to be you then you can only blame yourself for what happens. Either learn to self moderate or live with the consequences.

[ifireallymust]

maelwydd is better at staying on topic than I am, but I'll have another go at it, since I got some sleep.

Maybe the end goal of a lot (most?) pvpers isn't to anger the person controlling the character as much as to manipulate players into behaving in a way that makes the game more fun for pvpers. IE, to pvp, to craft for pvpers, to join pvp guilds, to join in the zergs (for those pvpers who like zerging), and to gather and craft and build things that can be stolen and destroyed.

If that is true, what the pvpers doing the manipulating don't understand is, a lot of players won't allow themselves to be manipulated in this way. They'll simply quit playing the game. They'll quit because they don't like to pvp, or they don't like to pvp in groups, or they don't like to zerg, or they don't like having to do everything with groups in order to play.

I sympathize with wanting the most fun for you sub money, but I think you're just going to have to learn to compromise a bit. Do I go around crying when I die to someone out pvping in the open world? No. Do I like dying to some naked guy who can kill me in two hits? No. The pvp isn't even remotely balanced yet, so there's very little point fighting back (although I do try).

But it's okay, I can put up with 6-9 months of getting ganked whenever I'm outside my safe zone and a pvper runs across me. Eventually, I'm sure the combat system will get a good overhaul, and then I'll be able to participate as something besides a loot pinata. Meanwhile, I don't mind you pvpers having what fun and getting what loot you can from me. Go for it. But at the same time, you should compromise with the less-pvp inclined until the means to defend everything from a homestead to a max size tribe are in place. And that means not pissing people off in an attempt to get them to behave in a way you would prefer.

[Sirius]

Regardless of what you say, maelwydd, it's obvious you intended the insulting comments to refer to those specific "pvpers" who were debating you in this thread, or at least to be interpreted as if they were intended to refer to them. Kinda like if we were having this same debate and I randomly started referring to "whiny carebear pussies", it would be obvious that I was either using the term to refer indirectly to you, or that I was dropping the label to imply that it applied to you, in order to get you riled up. See how that works?

Despite your protestations, these stupid attitudes are confirmed elsewhere in your comments, e.g.

LOL why don't all you angry PvP'ers go find a game with pvp. Too much pent up agression here...as usual. Go get laid guys.

And nothing you can say is going to change the fact that people in this thread are talking about complaining to the devs to criminalize conduct that they don't like. Your response is this:

So please do not ever say it is people complaining against those that abuse a system that forces change, as it is actually to people crying the most about the changes who are usually the cause of the change.

Which is just brilliant, really. The people asking devs to ban something aren't the cause of the change, you say, it's the people doing the things that the people are complaining about. I suppose you don't notice that the logic behind this conclusion unravels once people start complaining unreasonably and expect crackdowns on whatever behavior they don't like..

[Raizure]

Just going "slightly" back on topic here, but is anyone besides me looking forward to POISON I definitely have some plans that would force carebears to leave their little pieces of 'heaven' and face the real world

[Dubanka]

you really have this thing about the zerg dont you? We get it. We all hate it.

most competent pvp entities are anti-zerg...why share the credit with our l337 skillz?

The zerg occurs for two primary reasons:
1. I LOVE MY PIXELS. ake pixel whores. the thought of losing pixels drives them to call up every ally they can muster in the attempt to ensure they don't lose pixels. usually justified as l337 political skillsz, alliances are part of the game, managing a bazillion people is a tough job mate.
2. I'M A WINNER! Everyone likes to be a winner. Nobody likes to lose in their free time. Unless the dominant side is very disciplined about their recruiting (as in shutting it down), they will see their numbers swell...because everyone wants to say they were there when they 'won'.

Neither of these are exclusive to either pve or pvp centric gameplay...it's a human nature thing...Fear and WINNING!

The pvp isn't even remotely balanced yet, so there's very little point fighting back (although I do try).

I do not understand this statement. COMBAT MECHANICS ARE HORRIBLE! everyone gets that...but they are horrible for everyone. Everyone has access to the same crazy overpowered preorder weapons. It's actually pretty balanced...in that it sucks equally for everyone. And with the current mechanics, there is absolutely no reason to not fight big...luck > skill and 2-3 strikes with an axe in close succession...voila, dead guy. woo hoo take his stuff.

I can put up with 6-9 months of getting ganked whenever I'm outside my safe zone and a pvper runs across me.

Again i don't understand this. If you're situationally aware, don't let folks you don't know get too close to you, and don't pile so much crap on yourself that you can't move...there really isn't a reason you should die. We don't have any way to slow a char down, so once you start sprinting, unless you're overloaded, no one is going to be able to catch you. I don't understand the 'ohhh noooo, guesss i'm just gonnnna diiie...' thing going on here.

anyway zerg = bad.
zerg is relative.
there are a couple of zergs presently in game (imo).
most of your pvprs are not zerged up...we'd actually rather fight each other.
i'm curious to see how things evolve once combat gets turned on.

[maelwydd]

Regardless of what you say, maelwydd, it's obvious you intended the insulting comments to refer to those specific "pvpers" who were debating you in this thread, or at least to be interpreted as if they were intended to refer to them. Kinda like if we were having this same debate and I randomly started referring to "whiny carebear pussies", it would be obvious that I was either using the term to refer indirectly to you, or that I was dropping the label to imply that it applied to you, in order to get you riled up. See how that works?

I was refering to a SUBSET of the generic PvP'er, namely those who intentionally engage in PvP for the purpose of pissing other off. Again, if that is a good fit for YOUR playing style then I make no appology to you as you are not worth the effort. If however you are part of the large majority of PvP'ers that engage in PvP for fun and the competative element of it then it isn't directed at you. And you using the term "whiny carebear pussies" wouldn't bother me personally as I am not one. Either way your point is at best moot, at worst self incimination from you.

Despite your protestations, these stupid attitudes are confirmed elsewhere in your comments, e.g.

Yeah unfortunately comments made as a bit of fun can are easy to be misunderstood. Would this have made my point clearer: -

LOL why don't all you angry PvP'ers go find a game with pvp. Too much pent up agression here...as usual. Go get laid guys.

And nothing you can say is going to change the fact that people in this thread are talking about complaining to the devs to criminalize conduct that they don't like.

Actually would me saying "you totally missed the point of the thread if that is your opinion" change it? I personally don't think the thread has been about people complaining to the devs, just a few comments that the devs themselves have stated what THEY think is unacceptable. You can argue with me all you want just you don't have a leg to stand on when trying to argue with the devs.

Your response is this:

It is a shame you didn't actually get the point I was trying to make here. Put simply, a system would not be introduced if the system that the devs introduced was done so in good spirit. Unfortunately some people, this small subset of PvP'ers, abuse their system, the devs don't like how it is being abused and so change it. Again, if people played within both the system restrictions and ALSO within social restrictions (that we should all have learnt as children about how to play with others) then these changes would NEVER be required.

Which is just brilliant, really. The people asking devs to ban something aren't the cause of the change, you say, it's the people doing the things that the people are complaining about. I suppose you don't notice that the logic behind this conclusion unravels once people start complaining unreasonably and expect crackdowns on whatever behavior they don't like..

If the people who were complaining were making invalid requests or the devs didn't agree, the changes wouldn't take place. I cannot make it any clearer then that. The REASON for these changes is because the game design the devs have is not working as intended. And unfortunately asking people to "please don't act like an arse, play hard but play fair" just does't work. So they introduce hard coded restrictions.

ANY competative activity requires an enforced set of rules, not because people don't understand the reason for them, but because some people just do not have enough self control to stay within them. And PvP, despite it's virtual setting, is a competative activity.

[Sirius]

I like how your posts mix the painfully obvious with the patently ridiculous..

[Raizure]

I was refering to a SUBSET of the generic PvP'er, namely those who intentionally engage in PvP for the purpose of pissing other off. Again, if that is a good fit for YOUR playing style then I make no appology to you as you are not worth the effort. If however you are part of the large majority of PvP'ers that engage in PvP for fun and the competative element of it then it isn't directed at you. And you using the term "whiny carebear pussies" wouldn't bother me personally as I am not one. Either way your point is at best moot, at worst self incimination from you.




Yeah unfortunately comments made as a bit of fun can are easy to be misunderstood. Would this have made my point clearer: -

LOL why don't all you angry PvP'ers go find a game with pvp. Too much pent up agression here...as usual. Go get laid guys.



Actually would me saying "you totally missed the point of the thread if that is your opinion" change it? I personally don't think the thread has been about people complaining to the devs, just a few comments that the devs themselves have stated what THEY think is unacceptable. You can argue with me all you want just you don't have a leg to stand on when trying to argue with the devs.




It is a shame you didn't actually get the point I was trying to make here. Put simply, a system would not be introduced if the system that the devs introduced was done so in good spirit. Unfortunately some people, this small subset of PvP'ers, abuse their system, the devs don't like how it is being abused and so change it. Again, if people played within both the system restrictions and ALSO within social restrictions (that we should all have learnt as children about how to play with others) then these changes would NEVER be required.



If the people who were complaining were making invalid requests or the devs didn't agree, the changes wouldn't take place. I cannot make it any clearer then that. The REASON for these changes is because the game design the devs have is not working as intended. And unfortunately asking people to "please don't act like an arse, play hard but play fair" just does't work. So they introduce hard coded restrictions.

ANY competative activity requires an enforced set of rules, not because people don't understand the reason for them, but because some people just do not have enough self control to stay within them. And PvP, despite it's virtual setting, is a competative activity.

2 words: Sandbox mmo. Now deal with it. If i want your stuff, i shall take it. If i can't, i shall destroy it. If you want to defend it, i shall destroy you Nothing personal, it's just the way the game is played

[Sirius]

GRIEFER!

You are a prick, have poor social skills, can't interact with people normally, crave attention, are nutty with rage, have spit bubbling from the corners of your mouth, and you are only able to act this way because Maelwydd isn't there to punch you in the face in real life! I hope you are proud of yourself, because you're a horrible person who doesn't deserve to play this video game.