Page 11 of 15 FirstFirst ... 910111213 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 149
  1. #101
    Why have terraforming then? Just make everything static.
    I guess I don't understand the question. You have terraforming so you can alter the terrain to your eventual tactical advantage. You have terraforming so you can raise defensive berms and build moats - along with other, less combat-oriented things. And if, as an aggressor, it doesn't cost you something to overcome all the defender's terraforming efforts - things like having to build and then drag huge, vulnerable siege engines and scaling ladders and moat bridging equipment and so forth to the enemy's gates and then defend it while you're trying to get it into operation, and bring superior numbers to overcome the tactical advantage fixed fortifications are supposed to provide (that's sort of why you build them) - then yes, I would agree that terraforming is indeed pointless.

    That's what I mean by 'make it cost the aggressor as much effort to knock something down as it originally took the defender to build it'.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Bridger View Post
    I suppose I'm what the uber-warriors would call a stone carebear. As I've already said elsewhere, personally I have no interest in PvP. I'm not good at it. I don't get much enjoyment out of it. I'd rather build than destroy.

    But that being said...

    I don't want to see a PvP-less Xsyon. I don't want to see that because building without risk of destruction will quickly become an empty, boring pursuit. Perfect safety would drain all the purpose out of construction and creation.

    As I see it, the trick is to balance the risk against the reward. If I can build a beautiful sandcastle only to have the first mindless bully to come along kick it down, what's my motivation to build another? (Assuming I'm not a masochist, which I'm not.) But if I can build a beautiful sandcastle that is safe from destruction, and then use it as a base from which to move down the beach to try and build another... and if some bully does kick that one down... Well, then I have a choice don't I? I can go back to my safe, beautiful creation and hide in the shadows and eventually get bored to the point that I risk another attempt at building that second castle down the beach. Or maybe I can content myself with making buckets and shovels (and swords and spears) and supplying them to the more adventurous types who get enjoyment out of building sandcastles further down the beach and then defending them.

    Now I realize there would have to be some details worked out. But I don't see why this wouldn't be a workable core model for Xsyon. It works pretty well for EVE Online, anyway.

    And speaking of workable mechanics and borrowing from EVE, that could be a solution for the question of how siege warfare would work in Xsyon. Make besieging a fortified position a protracted affair, just like it is in the real world. You don't destroy a fortified position in a matter of minutes. At the very least - and perhaps depending on the level of fortification present - you'd be talking a matter of hours.

    Perhaps even days.
    This fella gets it!

    A big aspect to your sandcastle metaphore...one word: politics!

    That is where your campfire friendships, trade agreements, mutual defence contacts, mercs for hire, and all of those other options come into play.

    Id give you a case of beer in game if we could craft it yet simply for being optimistic! Thank you!

  3. #103
    the attacker should absolutely have to build war engines to break walls.
    battering rams, trebs, catapults.
    tactically the defender should be slashing and burning all resources in the window immediately prior to a seige to force the attacker to have to import the materials to build their 'machines of war'.

    that would be awesome.

    seiging a city should not be an easy task. It shoudl in fact be incredibly difficult, and should, like the rest of the game, be reliant upon logistics, and crafting, to do it successfully. Hannibal could not take Rome because he lacked seige equipment. Thems the breaks. Walls > barbarians.

  4. #104
    Visitor BigCountry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Way down deep in a bottle of ale...
    Posts
    414
    Quote Originally Posted by Bridger View Post
    I guess I don't understand the question. You have terraforming so you can alter the terrain to your eventual tactical advantage. You have terraforming so you can raise defensive berms and build moats - along with other, less combat-oriented things. And if, as an aggressor, it doesn't cost you something to overcome all the defender's terraforming efforts - things like having to build and then drag huge, vulnerable siege engines and scaling ladders and moat bridging equipment and so forth to the enemy's gates and then defend it while you're trying to get it into operation, and bring superior numbers to overcome the tactical advantage fixed fortifications are supposed to provide (that's sort of why you build them) - then yes, I would agree that terraforming is indeed pointless.

    That's what I mean by 'make it cost the aggressor as much effort to knock something down as it originally took the defender to build it'.
    Gotcha.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Dubanka View Post
    ... Finally

    Do you have any idea how much pvp groups LOVE dedicated craft people? City builders? Farmers? And i'm not talking about as prey, i'm talking about on their own side. If you ENJOY building cities and walls and terraforming and making the ultimate indestructible, unseigable fortress...that means we can leave it to you and go out and kill stuff ...
    Actually, yes - I do know how much some dedicated PvP-ers - usually the more mature ones - appreciate dedicated crafters. (I'm one of the humble drones in a construction corporation in EVE. We feed the war machine and are universally loved and appreciated by our alliance's combat fleets for our efforts. I get to do what I like to do, and as a result they get to do what they like to do. Win/win all around.)

    Also, as I sort of hinted in my prior post, the more mature crafters usually appreciate that kind of mature PvP to the same extent. Building something with no purpose other than to build it, and with no risk to it once it's made, inevitably becomes a dull, empty exercise in rote repetition. I'm no more interested in that than I am in paying a monthly subscription fee so I can build sand castles for mindless bullies to destroy.

    The problem - and I'm sorry, but all the rationalizations and posturing aside this is the simple truth - is that not all PvP-ers are mature enough to appreciate the symbiotic relationship you and I recognize. They are in it for the quick gratification of 'knocking shit down cuz I can.' That's a dead end. Eventually the crafters come to realize they're paying a monthly subscription so some asshat can get his jollies by being an asshat and there goes not only a subscription, but the contribution that 'carebear' is bringing to the game in the form of something more than 'all war, all the time.' This being so, the trick for the developers is to create a game mechanic that nurtures the kind of mature PvP you and I both want, while at the same time restraining the immature punks.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Salvadore View Post
    ...

    A big aspect to your sandcastle metaphore...one word: politics!

    That is where your campfire friendships, trade agreements, mutual defence contacts, mercs for hire, and all of those other options come into play.
    ...
    Clearly, I'm not the only one who 'gets it' either. A big 'yes' to everything you say.

  7. #107
    Thems the breaks. Walls > barbarians.
    Until I invent gunpowder.

  8. #108
    The problem - and I'm sorry, but all the rationalizations and posturing aside this is the simple truth - is that not all PvP-ers are mature enough to appreciate the symbiotic relationship you and I recognize. They are in it for the quick gratification of 'knocking shit down cuz I can.' That's a dead end. Eventually the crafters come to realize they're paying a monthly subscription so some asshat can get his jollies by being an asshat and there goes not only a subscription, but the contribution that 'carebear' is bringing to the game in the form of something more than 'all war, all the time.' This being so, the trick for the developers is to create a game mechanic that nurtures the kind of mature PvP you and I both want, while at the same time restraining the immature punks.
    I agree with you. Fortunately, at least in my experience, this 'gank window' is usually only prevalent at the very outset of a game (when throwaway startup toons are all equally powerful). As soon as we step past the immediate settlement issue, what SHOULD happen, is we will move into an environment of who can craft and build the fastest, and then make that translate into territorial / pvp dominance. HOPEFULLY the gear equation will be 'fixed' to some degree so that will come to pass.

    If we remain in a Nekkid+PO weapon = best solution, we've obviously got a huge gameplay problem (to the point, a large portion of my group is really 'meh' about the game right now because of that massive problem...there is no point to doing anything if the best solution is what you were borne with).

    So, if they get their basic mechanics that are currently in game fixed (not even talking about fixing the wonky combat system), the ubergank issue should be but an annoyance (heyena's and jackals picking off the unwary/unprepared). I don't want the devs restraining them. I'd prefer to have the tools to do it myself...the only thing the devs need to do is make their systems work

  9. #109
    Dubanka,

    Indeed, I think you and I are reading from the same page. One point though: "Hyenas and jackals picking off the unwary/unprepared" - provisionally yes, dependent upon just how prevalent the problem is. If I get ganked every time I step outside the walls by a pack of nekkid slap fighters, nope. Not interested. If, on the other hand, I get complacent to the point that every once in a while I get successfully mugged on the highway by a hairy barbarian... 'Note to self: hire some dependable mercenaries for the next trade caravan.'

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Bridger View Post
    Dubanka,

    Indeed, I think you and I are reading from the same page. One point though: "Hyenas and jackals picking off the unwary/unprepared" - provisionally yes, dependent upon just how prevalent the problem is. If I get ganked every time I step outside the walls by a pack of nekkid slap fighters, nope. Not interested. If, on the other hand, I get complacent to the point that every once in a while I get successfully mugged on the highway by a hairy barbarian... 'Note to self: hire some dependable mercenaries for the next trade caravan.'
    That's the point of the tribe/clan system tho.

    Situation: bad guys in the trash pile.

    /t bad guys - looks like 2 or 3- in the trash pile. make them go away please
    /t [uberleetpvpguy1] sweet on it
    /t [uberleetpvpguy2] dude wait for me i need some stam
    /t [therealdealuberleetdude] uh sorry guys, they were just wannabe ganks...killed em already...

    now if you're trying to play the game solo...obviously you've got a potential problem (unless you are, in fact the uberl337 craftingpvpwunderkid)...but that's a road you've chosen.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •