Why should HP be based of levels gained?

[Liquidblade]

well one thing is for sure MIke Tyson trained hard to be able to punch like that and take the hits TOO!!! otherwise he would just an average guy..

[Mactavendish]

Again it should all depend on what a player is willing to do .

Running the thing out a bit...

All players would have the ability to reach the same base HP as any other player through a combination of craft and combat... ( much like it is now )

Even a casual player could max his HP and would know what his HP are.

Now things like level of opponents armor ( mitigation to damage ) + level of specific combat skill in use ( potential damage amount ) + Quality of weapon ( Base damage amount ) = Damage done.

Removing hp out of this equation does a number of positive things for the game...

1. Promotes making the best armor.
2. Encourages players to level skills.
3. Promotes making the best weapons.

So I totally disagree with you ddt.

HP is the amount of damage you can take here.

Armor and avoidance should determine that instead.

Training combat skills should add to the amount of potential damage you can do and add to stats like str or fortitude.
Training Crafts like terra, masonry, and logging should do the very same thing, add to str and fort, NOT add to HP.
Training other crafts like arch, tailor or leather should add to dex and intell and maybe percpt.

HP should be tied to your state of health, such as hunger, thirst, and comfort. Make those as high as you can can keep them and that determines your HP.

What this all ultimately does is make it very possible to have a newer player kill a vet because the new player has purchased a supreme weapon, and great armor, has maxed his comfort/hunger/thirst to have max HP , and the vet decided to depend on his skill alond and was in craft clothes at the time.

Think about it. The vet gets taught a lesson, and the new player is able to get items as loot that he never would have if we keep the system like it is.

How is this not a win for all concerned?

[MrDDT]

Currently this system we have already does the 3 things you listed.

1) Promotes making and using the best armor
2) Encourages players to level skills, even more than your system.
3) Promotes making the best weapons.

I see no reason why removing HP would change any of those 3 factors, in fact it makes #2 less of a factor.

I agree training combat skills should add to the amount of damage you do, and adding to combat stats.
I agree that crafts like masonry, bonecrafting, and even leather crafting. Should add to str, however, I also think they should add to HP
Terraforming is an action skill and logging is not a crafting skill a gathering skill. Again I think they should add to stats like str, and fort, AND hp.
Training crafts like tailoring, and basketry shouldnt have anything or much to do with HP, however they should be more focused on dex.

VET thats trained in combat, would still kill a new player. Because of the skills even in your way of skill being more DPS only and nothing to do with HP.


I dont see how the new player would kill the vet? Anymore than a new player killing a vet now. Yes there is a huge gap because of HP and skills. However, there is still a gap with out the HP and only skills.

My thoughts is close the gap yes. But it doesnt have to remove the HP factor from that. It just shouldnt be 10x more HP than a new player.

Ive seen new players kill vets now that have 2x the HP the new players have. Your making the same point but you are saying you have to remove HP with levels to do it. Im simply saying you just need to remove the huge gap and make it closer. Instead of being 10x more HP, and 5x more damage. Make it 2x more HP, and 3x more damage.

I would even like to see armor have more of an effect, Ive stated that months ago when they did combat changes.

Added after 1 43 minutes:

Really simple. Just have Xsyon put it to a vote. Ive talked to 10s of people about this, and they think its funny how you guys are saying HPs should all be the same.

I mean, I see no difference in HP being the same for a new player and all skills being the same.

If you dont want skills to effect HP, lets put it to a vote.

I only ask that, the vote be made by a mod, with choices that not only say your choice, but mine too. Which is HP should be effected by skills, but the gap should be less than 15x more HP for a vet than a newb.

[joexxxz]

I will vote for this.
Base HP = 100. Which is new player HP.
Combat VET HP +10% = 110 at maximum. Means, the maximum it can go.
Combat beginer HP +2%-5% = 102 - 105.
Agility for Combat VET +25% max, this is just an estimation.
Strength for Combat VET +100 % max, how hard can you hit. , this is just an estimation.

Examples:
Leather Armor type(1).
Defense against bare arms/legs 100 HP.
Defense against axes 10 HP.
Defense against swords 10 HP.
Agility bonus +30 %
Heat bonus +30%
Energy drainage 15%

Iron Armor type(1).
Defense against bare arms/legs 200 HP.
Defense against axes 70 HP.
Defense against swords 50 HP.
Agility bonus -30 %
Heat bonus -30%
Energy drainage +45%, how fast will the energy be depleted

Cloth Armor type(1).
Defense against bare arms/legs 50 HP.
Defense against axes 0 HP.
Defense against swords 0 HP.
Agility bonus +50 %
Heat bonus +0%
Energy drainage +5%

NO Armor or clothes.
Defense against bare arms/legs 40 HP.
Defense against axes 0 HP.
Defense against swords 0 HP.
Agility bonus +60 %
Heat bonus -15%
Energy drainage 0%

[Mactavendish]

10s 0f people in this game agree with you? or people outside of this game?

I thought there were only 50 people playing now... ;P

I agree put it to a vote, or jordi should tell us to just shuttup and do what he wants.

Why do you feel that a vet should have HP advantage? You don't believe in your skills? Effort should be involved.. simply giving away damage mitigation just because you have been here longer is an easy button.

The mere fact you are a vet shoudl mean you alrteady have greater skill and the ability to make better gear. THAT is your advantage.. not a lame and inflated HP pool.

[MrDDT]

10s 0f people in this game agree with you? or people outside of this game?

I thought there were only 50 people playing now... ;P

I agree put it to a vote, or jordi should tell us to just shuttup and do what he wants.

Why do you feel that a vet should have HP advantage? You don't believe in your skills? Effort should be involved.. simply giving away damage mitigation just because you have been here longer is an easy button.

The mere fact you are a vet shoudl mean you alrteady have greater skill and the ability to make better gear. THAT is your advantage.. not a lame and inflated HP pool.

Same reason I believe that people that work up skills should yield better QL items. Its called Character Progression. Giving some things for people to look/work forward to.

I dont base this around what I can or cant do. It's about what I think would be fun for the players wanting to play the game, and the over all fun of the game. If I were to only think of myself, I likely would come out with very bias opinions like you have shown here.

Being that I likely have the strongest toon in game right now, I would be asking for no changes at all. However, I'm not. I believe new players should have a better chance, or less disparity from a vet. I do believe vets should have advantages as they have worked for them, and it gives people reasons to shoot for better toons, training, and goals.

Right now I have almost 10x more HP than a new player, that's a large gap to over come, I see no reason why the gap shouldnt be like 2x to 4x.

[Mactavendish]

Fine I don't care anymore Daniel.

On second thought...

I do care.

If the common foe for players will be other players, then to make it fun for all ... not just a select few that have the opportunity to play many more hours than the average player, we really need to remove HP out of the equation to level the field a bit.

Armor, skills and how well you have worked on your stats will be plenty of an advantage for any avid player.

I feel sure that the reason MrDDT does not like this is he, in reality, wants the gap between vets and new players as big as possible.

Is that What Jordi had in mind all along? If so, then this game will eventually be made up ONLY of vet players that have spent thousands of hours building their toons. Sounds like a few of the other games out there he is trying to be different from, so I doubt that is his plan.

HE has said repeatedly that he wants hardcore and casual players here in the same world. Wants PVP and PVE players to exist even side by side.

I'm sure he envision's the hardcore players fighting among themselves, and the pve players building and conduction trading and hunting. Something for everyone.

Atm, Players like MrDDT have no hardcore players to war with. Expansion totems will help to resolve that problem.

In the mean time, Many of the rest of us are enjoying the other sides of the game.

[Dubanka]

i think we argued months (and months) ago that it was stupid for hps to tie to level gain (promotes macroing, etc. since levesl come from 'crafting' exp).

maybe your hps should increase slightly if you stay full, or decrease if you starve for prolonged periods.

if you want to increase your hps, do stuff that increases your fort....doesnt make any lick of sense that increasing yoru skill at toolcrafting would make your more durable.

.shrug. i don't play...but it's kinda common sense.

[Deatu]

Your assumptions are wrong Mac. I can say with great confidence that your assumptions about the disparity between the casual and starting characters vs. vets are convoluted. Its simply the way the game is designed right now. These problems should have been addressed in pre-release. DDT, myself and others have lauded at the very same issues that upset you as well. We feel it's imbalanced right now too, however you cannot stop the snowball. You can't go back and fundementaly reprogram the game and say, "Whoops, sorry. You guys are WAY too powerful." No, you need to buff the new player. This very thing happened in EvE after 3 years of consistent and devout players logging in at weird hours to change skills, starting with WAY less than the original player base. What did they do? They gave starter players 4x the starting experience than the older vets. They also sped up the initial basic training, cutting that disparity of experience down drastically. Was it the right thing to do? In EvE, yes... to the the majority. Will it work here? Maybe.

Take a look at CCP's youtube videos, they have a TON of behind the scenes on their company about balancing, upcoming features, player politics and the likes. The transparity of CCP's backstage antics rings to a very similar tune to NG's. Take notes, take a nap, take it easy.

[fatboy21007]

folks, were all old farts around here, Reason animal as easy is pretty simple, are hps are too high, Lower are hps to that of a starting character and guess what?, those very same animals will be very challenging, pvp would be equal grounds ( besides the fact of sum that have high combat skills, then ofc they got the dmg advantage). I personally dont think you shouldn't get raised hps in this game. THis is survival after all, atm theirs a few ingame who dont have to worry about it. I miss the days of launch, Where is was equal fighting, when ya roaming around and some1 tried to attack ya, you actually stood a chance 1 vs 1. Hell even seen few take only 5 at a time and win all due to skill with the ole keyboard. Atm i see the king of the hill videos, even pvped friends ingame, It is a tanking game now, and if you want tanking go play fuckin wow. I want my nornal pvp back damnit, i may like my safezone, but even i feel deprived here of sum old time fun! And Dubanka's Point is highly valid their, fortitude is HP based, that stat i have yet to see raise and that stat should be tough to raise. I hope a balance comes soon, no offense ddt , you and few others got the godly status ingame and cant be defeated due to ya crappy combat system. Even you gotta agree, something needs done now about it.