No risk to crafting, Needs Penalties

[FabricSoftener]

wait wait, no they arent, because what they wanted they got..then realized they didnt like what they got, and went to the next one..demanded what they wanted, realized it still sucked, went to the final one a few months ago..demanded changes, got them and went "damnit, we wanted change, got it..and STILL it doesnt work...onto the next game boys!"

very true..

or. they are getting what they want but havent realized yet that they suck at it once they get it.

[Dontaze_Mebro]

but that "balance" of PvP and PvE is a holy grail, a imperfect perfection that can never happen.
its like saying there is a huge group waiting to see the perfect balance between Israel and Palestine..just someone needs to make it.

its 2 groups that dont mix, and never will..you can have the best aspects of the game for both..but its not the aspects or lack of in the game itself that runs one side off or the other..its the players of the otherside.

remove the player aspect of it, and you can have that balance...but then you have no one playing to disrupt it.
no one side is to blame more than the other...

but jsut as an example..look at the arguments this thread caused just TALKING about it being in game.
you suspect there is some magic mix that when it's actually ingame both side will go "this is great!"

if we cant agree on just ideas and theories of how it should work, what makes you think anyone can create one where we wouldnt think the same thing?

name one MMO where there isnt a PvP vs PvE raging debate that went from launch to current days..and a middleground was found, and the debate/elements added to try to please either side didnt run people off from the other...

They don't mix because of narrow minded people like yourself that believe that they could never mix.

[orious13]

The "true sandbox" is an unrealistic vision. It's as simple as that. I've wanted one for the longest time, but now it is the morality loss of players that prevents it. MMO developers understand this. You will have to compromise.

[dxwarlock]

i think the point has flown clear over your head there...

its not that the community decides the actual structure and mechanisms, its that the world is self regulated without rules, without saftey. Xsyon could (if it was launch ready and full) easily fufull this, since the sandbox has more sand than any others out there...much more...this is what people want. However its not a sandbox with death penalties for one faction and not the other, its not a sandbox if you can opt out of pvp. the players themselves are suppose to create their own safe zones, through the tools given to them in game, mainly alliances, protectors, defensive structures ect...not by pappa jookie and his magical code. Hes done great laying one of the biggest sandboxes and filling it with sand...now lets take the life guards out of the sandbox and let people play as they want.

this is why i said you dont understand what a true sandbox is. i still dont think youll get it because it doesnt fit your argument,.

so since my definition of how I want to play in a sandbox is different from yours, im not playing in the sandbox right?
Im making a castle on my side of the sandbox, your on the other side digging holes and playing with tonka trucks screaming "WTF you doing? its sand..people dig sand, move it around drive trucks thru it..you dont even know how to use this playground box of sand right...geez"

we are PvP vs PvE.
I want to stock the store with coke, you with pepsi..we will never agree. and both think the other is doing it wrong

why I was leaving...since getting you to see my point of
"well if its a sandbox, what if I dont want to have to hide so I dont die while taking a piss..give me my safe area"
and I cant see yours of "its a sandbox, I should be abel to kill you anywhere anyhow"

then is it truly a sandbox either way?
is its a sandbox if a PvE is forced into someone elses playstyle because they want to PvP inside thier totem? on the other hand, is it a sandbox if the PvPer cant attack anyone anywhere?

either side of out argument is biased towards what we want, BOTH pushing it away from sandbox gameplay..

[fflhktsn]

if there was a huge crowd why aren't they playing the other failed sandbox ffa mmos unless you mean huge as in a thousand or so.....and the community\customer is never right, that is the problem with most developers they ruin there own game by trying to change their original vision of what it's supposed to be. if you change your vision towards the end of the development when most qq'ers like you show up than you screw the customer that was there long before helping with their original vision.

most mistake that makes a mmo fail is right before launch or just after by implementing a feature that was not originally in their vision. Xyson has already said that the PVP aspect of this game was not going to be up to par with other features until after prelude, his vision is for the prelude to be all about building up the world and once tribal warfare opens up the pvp aspect will have been fleshed out including combat mechanics etc. this was not going to happen until the transition from prelude to whatever he calls the next phase.

they are not true sandboxes, they failed to deliver the amount of sand the community was looking for. most offers just the pvp and combat, with no features that matterd. thats why this game is diffrent from them all.

theres no comparison to this game at the moment, and that is why it is special...should they be able to deliver all stated features and overcome their technical difficulties that is...thechnical difficulties will chase away even the most hardcore sandbox fans unfortunatly.

also, this game would kill for an audience the size of darkfalls, so dont knock what they have done, they just failed to cater to the pve crowd by not making any pve in the game sanbox or entertaining, as this game already has done.

[dxwarlock]

They don't mix because of narrow minded people like yourself that believe that they could never mix.

yea ahs nothing to do with the millions and millions of MMO players that can testify to the fact that many many others like them left games because of PvE vs PvP arguements or disagree ments..
its all MY fault that these people can never agree...I admit the blame is mine..I am solely the reason that a good PvE/PvP mmo has never made it..

[NexAnima]

no my little friend, the customer is right...always...and there is a HUGE crowd waiting for such a game....huge


....FORUM FATALITY....

No they are not always right, look at UO from what it was to what EA gave the wanting little gimmes. A person could have a good idea, but people are always stupid. For once devs need to stay true to their vision instead of trying to make one product fit the image of the entitlements

[MrKrueak]

so since my definition of how I want to play in a sandbox is different from yours, im not playing in the sandbox right?
Im making a castle on my side of the sandbox, your on the other side digging holes and playing with tonka trucks screaming "WTF you doing? its sand..people dig sand, move it around drive trucks thru it..you dont even know how to use this playground box of sand right...geez"

we are PvP vs PvE.
I want to stock the store with coke, you with pepsi..we will never agree. and both think the other is doing it wrong

why I was leaving...since getting you to see my point of
"well if its a sandbox, what if I dont want to have to hide so I dont die while taking a piss..give me my safe area"
and I cant see yours of "its a sandbox, I should be abel to kill you anywhere anyhow"

then is it truly a sandbox either way?
is its a sandbox if a PvE is forced into someone elses playstyle because they want to PvP inside thier totem? on the other hand, is it a sandbox if the PvPer cant attack anyone anywhere?

either side of out argument is biased towards what we want, BOTH pushing it away from sandbox gameplay..

perfect post. i've tried getting my point accross about a sandbox being subjective but not as well as you just did

[Dontaze_Mebro]

so since my definition of how I want to play in a sandbox is different from yours, im not playing in the sandbox right?
Im making a castle on my side of the sandbox, your on the other side digging holes and playing with tonka trucks screaming "WTF you doing? its sand..people dig sand, move it around drive trucks thru it..you dont even know how to use this playground box of sand right...geez"

we are PvP vs PvE.
I want to stock the store with coke, you with pepsi..we will never agree. and both think the other is doing it wrong

why I was leaving...since getting you to see my point of
"well if its a sandbox, what if I dont want to have to hide so I dont die while taking a piss..give me my safe area"
and I cant see yours of "its a sandbox, I should be abel to kill you anywhere anyhow"

then is it truly a sandbox either way?
is its a sandbox if a PvE is forced into someone elses playstyle because they want to PvP inside thier totem? on the other hand, is it a sandbox if the PvPer cant attack anyone anywhere?

either side of out argument is biased towards what we want, BOTH pushing it away from sandbox gameplay..

What makes it a sandbox is also my ability to come kick your castle over if I don't like it, and bloody your lip if you got something to say about it. What kind of pansy sandboxes did you grow up in?

[dxwarlock]

What makes it a sandbox is also my ability to come kick your castle over if I don't like it, and bloody your lip if you got something to say about it. What kind of pansy sandboxes did you grow up in?

sorry dont remember my kindergarden sandbox having a full contact, testosterone driven aspect to it.