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  1. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by MrDDT View Post
    I like this idea, and I dont think it would be bad at all. I do however, think basic resources (rocks, sand, etc) would work better, as they ARE used in other things and will help drive a market.

    Using items that have no in game value other than upkeep for a totem will help create an economy, however, its will also force people to do scavenaging (only way other than trade to get those items). You could still trade to get them, but better will be to use items that have dual uses.

    This will also help tribes that have been around a while not have a huge advantage because these resources were used before and still used, adding them to upkeep costs will mean they dont have huge stock piles of these resources.

    I'm not shooting down your idea, I'm simply saying I believe it would be better to use basic resources that are used in many things.
    2 pts.

    First point - hauling sand, rocks etc is a mighty heavy currency, not to mention what a grind (grrrrr). One of the reasons that light transportable paper IOUs came into existance in real life, and why Xsyon, which purports to be sorta "reality based" should adopt a currency for the game. And, I like it that you can give something silly like beer tabs & bottle caps a value.

    Plus - I can just see this conversation taking place:

    Tribe Leader: Hey Joe, it's time for Totem upkeep - pay up your 100 sand buddy."
    Joe: Sure Leader
    (thougt bubble over Joe's head----------> Heh...I'd rather go hunting, what's he going to do if I don't grind out that 100 sand, kick me out and loose tribe area ...naaa, he'll just get the sand himself.

    Second point - Sand, rocks etc are a non-ending renewable resource and cannot be manipulated and therefore is susceptible to inflation, which could make sand/rock 1/2 as valuable as the previous month or players so sick of a grind they begin leaving the game. With an established currency Xsyon will be able to manipulate the amount of dollars/beer tabs & caps in game, they will be able to keep the economy from over-heating or becoming sluggish. More players - circulate more dollars/beer tabs & caps. Fewer players - slow down circulation.

    New Tribe Leader - member conversation:

    Tribe Leader: Hey Joe, it's time for Totem upkeep, I need $100.
    Joe: No problem, here you go...I sold 16 raccoon skins last night to Tribe Money Pot.

    China

  2. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by China View Post
    2 pts.

    First point - hauling sand, rocks etc is a mighty heavy currency, not to mention what a grind (grrrrr). One of the reasons that light transportable paper IOUs came into existance in real life, and why Xsyon, which purports to be sorta "reality based" should adopt a currency for the game. And, I like it that you can give something silly like beer tabs & bottle caps a value.

    Plus - I can just see this conversation taking place:

    Tribe Leader: Hey Joe, it's time for Totem upkeep - pay up your 100 sand buddy."
    Joe: Sure Leader
    (thougt bubble over Joe's head----------> Heh...I'd rather go hunting, what's he going to do if I don't grind out that 100 sand, kick me out and loose tribe area ...naaa, he'll just get the sand himself.

    Second point - Sand, rocks etc are a non-ending renewable resource and cannot be manipulated and therefore is susceptible to inflation, which could make sand/rock 1/2 as valuable as the previous month or players so sick of a grind they begin leaving the game. With an established currency Xsyon will be able to manipulate the amount of dollars/beer tabs & caps in game, they will be able to keep the economy from over-heating or becoming sluggish. More players - circulate more dollars/beer tabs & caps. Fewer players - slow down circulation.

    New Tribe Leader - member conversation:

    Tribe Leader: Hey Joe, it's time for Totem upkeep, I need $100.
    Joe: No problem, here you go...I sold 16 raccoon skins last night to Tribe Money Pot.

    China

    First Point. Yes its heavy, its not meant to be used as the main form of trade, its meant to be used as resources for upkeep. Many different ways to get these basic resources. Not just sand but other things. Instead of money only 2 ways. Scav or trade.

    Tribe Leader: Hey Joe, it's time for totem upkeep - up your 100 sand buddy"
    Joe: Sure Leader.
    (Thought bubble over joe's head Heh I'd rather go hunting, whats he going to do kick me out of I dont give him 100$? Nawh he can get the $ himself.)

    Applies both ways.



    Second point- Sand and rocks are never ending. So are scav items. Plus the cost of upkeep keeps the value, time gathering vs upkeep will make it keep its balance. Which is what you need for basics.

    Convo.
    New Tribe Leader - Member convo

    Tribe Leader :Hey Joe ites time for totem upkeep need 100 sand.
    Joe: No problem, here you go. I sold 16 raccoon skins last night to other tribe members and players.

    With money ONLY being used for upkeep. Players with single totems that need very little money will have no reason for this money. Yet they would for other things, like sand, rock, grass etc.

  3. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Mactavendish View Post
    I only have 2 issues your idea China

    1. I have over 20k in dollars alone. I am sure if we all pooled the "money" we would have well over 50k.

    This is great for players that have been around a long time and places any new player or tribes at a distinct disadvantage.

    2. This also mandates a form of currency not decided upon by the players.

    This may or may not be a bad thing, but the entire game is designed around having the players provide the quests, interactions and even the currency.
    1) Not that great of an advantage - infact maybe only a fair one since you have paid & played the game for a long time. But, how long is that 20k - 50k going to last you, if the cost per member of your tribe is $1000 a month?

    2) I have always believed that it was a mistake for Xsyon to allow the players to decide on a currency. The reasons being:
    A - You have to have a central government or bank to regulate a fiat currency, otherwise you get the mafia.
    It is all about the "Golden Rule" - He who has the gold rules.

    B - Without a unprejudiced central bank or government you get a very unlevel playing field. (Personally can you imagine ddt getting the monoply on the currency? - Me neither...heh)

    China

  4. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by China View Post
    1) Not that great of an advantage - infact maybe only a fair one since you have paid & played the game for a long time. But, how long is that 20k - 50k going to last you, if the cost per member of your tribe is $1000 a month?

    2) I have always believed that it was a mistake for Xsyon to allow the players to decide on a currency. The reasons being:
    A - You have to have a central government or bank to regulate a fiat currency, otherwise you get the mafia.
    It is all about the "Golden Rule" - He who has the gold rules.

    B - Without a unprejudiced central bank or government you get a very unlevel playing field. (Personally can you imagine ddt getting the monoply on the currency? - Me neither...heh)

    China

    I dont see a problem with giving tribes the choice in picking what they want for currency. However, I dont see how you can make one working off dollars, pennies, bottle caps work without having some system in game that uses them.
    Screws, bolts, nails, rocks etc all have use in game and I can see them being picked pretty easy.

    If they make totem upkeep use dollars, then that would give value to them and allow it to be used all over, for most people. Which allow it to work pretty well. I would rather see totems take real things. Like you want to upkeep your totem area? Use resources found in the world.
    You want to build a totem? Well why not do it like other projects. Using mats that would work.

    Dropping dollar bills into a totem doesnt make much sense in this type of world setting we have.

  5. #75
    At this point I don't even know what you are arguing about.

    To quote you from the thread about Dez's idea on totem decay...

    MrDDT: "I'm not sure how Xsyon plans to put it in, but I surely hope they change it so that inactive tribes will lose area control, and active tribes can gain them."

    I agree that only active subs should hold the land, and that inactive tribe should lose control.

    In this case Jordi has made it so that the tribe leader "owns" the totem and thus the land.

    The idea you like is Dez's. And that idea would still allow a lower number than tribe membership to control a large portion of land. You are in favor of his idea, but don't like any alternatives that do much the same thing only less painful.

    The decay idea Dez put forth is a bit harsh, but I could still work with it and I can say without any doubt that if it took place our tribe would be able to maintain an even larger area then we have now. But then again we have a very dedicated group of great players willing to put forth the effort ... it's what they do primarily to play here anyway.

    If we got rid of all totems where there has not been any active members in the last 6 months, and only after they have been given ample time to respond to emails or re-sub, MOST of this issue disappears.

  6. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Mactavendish View Post
    At this point I don't even know what you are arguing about.

    To quote you from the thread about Dez's idea on totem decay...

    MrDDT: "I'm not sure how Xsyon plans to put it in, but I surely hope they change it so that inactive tribes will lose area control, and active tribes can gain them."

    I agree that only active subs should hold the land, and that inactive tribe should lose control.

    In this case Jordi has made it so that the tribe leader "owns" the totem and thus the land.

    The idea you like is Dez's. And that idea would still allow a lower number than tribe membership to control a large portion of land. You are in favor of his idea, but don't like any alternatives that do much the same thing only less painful.

    The decay idea Dez put forth is a bit harsh, but I could still work with it and I can say without any doubt that if it took place our tribe would be able to maintain an even larger area then we have now. But then again we have a very dedicated group of great players willing to put forth the effort ... it's what they do primarily to play here anyway.

    If we got rid of all totems where there has not been any active members in the last 6 months, and only after they have been given ample time to respond to emails or re-sub, MOST of this issue disappears.

    I want to remove # of players being a factor in tribe size. Make it amount of activity. Not player # activity but activity.

    If 10 people work their arse off for a 200m totem area. I see no problems with that.
    Heck if 1 person does nothing but trade and grind resources to pay for a 200m totem area. Im ok with that.

    What Im not ok with is buying a huge chunk of land at any cost and it never being smaller unless they quit the game. If you have no upkeep. Then tribes with a few extra accounts can have huge areas of land with no upkeep.

    Then you can keep all your inactive and active members in your tribe and not be effected.
    If you want to hold a huge area, more members playing will help you get the resources to do that. More inactive members will not help you do that.

    You want to get rid of "inactive totems" well all Im saying is if you do that, then you need to remove all the inactive accounts out of tribes too. Because they are holding to much land using inactive members. Its not fair for solo players to lose a totem placement, but large tribes with few active members holding huge chunks of land with 1 person.

    I like alternatives that make sense. But punishing solo players because you dont want to lose some land. Isnt fair and I wont agree with it. Its not a good option.

  7. #77
    Ok. Then I will be the one to compromise and say let the totem upkeep mechanic be the same mechanic that removes the inactive single man totems...

    Send out email stating that totem decay/upkeep is going to be turned on. Tell all players and former players what the upkeep will be per tribe member and the date it will start.

    If they want to keep their totems, ( 1 man or 160 member NO difference ) Then they need to login and put down the first months upkeep.

    Active tribes will have no issues, ones thinking about coming back, just might.

    NG does not remove any totems, the system for totem decay does, based upon players interest in keeping it.

    Nobody punished and the end result is the exact same in most cases... win/win/win

  8. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Mactavendish View Post
    Ok. Then I will be the one to compromise and say let the totem upkeep mechanic be the same mechanic that removes the inactive single man totems...

    Send out email stating that totem decay/upkeep is going to be turned on. Tell all players and former players what the upkeep will be tribe member and the date it will start.

    If the want to keep their totems, ( 1 man or 160 member NO difference ) Then they need to login and put down the first months upkeep.

    Active tribes will have no issues, ones thinking about coming back, just might.

    NG does not remove any totems, the system for totem decay does, based upon players interest in keeping it.

    Nobody punished and the end result is the exact same in most cases... win/win/win

    Sounds like a great plan, only issue is the timeline. If you want it done, and decay happen before old tribes have 6 months to do it, then there are issues because Xsyon said they would give a longer warning.

    I think 6 months is to long always have. However, he told them something he should keep to it.

  9. #79
    cough** they also specified an actual date for new lands a while ago and that didnt happen, talking about word!!**cough

  10. #80
    Keeping your word is laudable, but often not doable.

    "Hey ddt, you gonna come over and help with these bricks?"

    ddt:"sure thing!" 10 minutes later ddt's child sprains his wrist playing skyrim and he must go to the doctor.

    "aww man.. that ddt NEVER keeps his word "


    stuff happens.

    What I am about to say I truly believe. flame away if you must.

    They should do what is in the best interest of the paying customers. PERIOD.

    Explain the reason, state the facts and move forward.

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