Hiding

[Jollepoker]

Oh don't get me wrong, skilling hide needs some kind of overhaul. I'm not going to risk getting banned to skill it, and I'm also not risking carpal tunnel, either! And I would like to max it, which doesn't seem likely to happen the way things are now, even with putting every skill point gained from everything else into it.

The problem with not allowing macroing but not banning or in some other way preventing those who break the rule against macroing is, only people willing to cheat will be able to effectively hide without suffering from carpal tunnel. So either macroing should not be against the rules, or macroers should be banned or have their characters reset when they're caught.

What a macro does is basically pressing buttons for you. It's not programming your computer in any way other than actually just pressing buttons. Many keyboards and mouses have this function built in them, are these cheating as well? If so, then why do many big companies create these gaming keyboards and mouses if they are not intended to be used? As long as it's actually just button pressing I see nothing wrong with it, as it is exacly the same you would do and you don't really need to use any third-party-tools to use them, which means it's technically not against the TOS by using them.

Seeing how Windows (I guess any other OS also works) is also a third-party program in this case, which isn't really needed for you to play Xsyon, I find it strange that they have not taking action against people using it since it probably gives an advantage against people that don't have it.

Speaking of things that gives an advantage, what about having a good computer? Shouldn't that be cheating as well? Or maybe even having a good connection to the server? Should every EU player report all US players for cheating because they have much better ping than they do? Should I report every youtube video I find of people that have more FPS than me?

Yes, you might think this sounds silly... But it's really on the same level as macroing if you think about it (and know exactly what macroing actually is).

[Dirt]

Im not sure how macroing is accomplished, screwing with the code i assume. How the hell do people even learn this stuff? Are they the computer programmer guys? If i open those files on my P.C. i understand nothing and imagine it would take a bit of knowledge to be able to manipulate them. Do they teach this stuff in highschool nowadays?

[Jadzia]

What a macro does is basically pressing buttons for you. It's not programming your computer in any way other than actually just pressing buttons. Many keyboards and mouses have this function built in them, are these cheating as well? If so, then why do many big companies create these gaming keyboards and mouses if they are not intended to be used? As long as it's actually just button pressing I see nothing wrong with it, as it is exacly the same you would do and you don't really need to use any third-party-tools to use them, which means it's technically not against the TOS by using them.

Seeing how Windows (I guess any other OS also works) is also a third-party program in this case, which isn't really needed for you to play Xsyon, I find it strange that they have not taking action against people using it since it probably gives an advantage against people that don't have it.

Speaking of things that gives an advantage, what about having a good computer? Shouldn't that be cheating as well? Or maybe even having a good connection to the server? Should every EU player report all US players for cheating because they have much better ping than they do? Should I report every youtube video I find of people that have more FPS than me?

Yes, you might think this sounds silly... But it's really on the same level as macroing if you think about it (and know exactly what macroing actually is).

The problem is unattended macroing, when you make your character staying online and grinding skills while you are asleep or spending your time somewhere else.

Im not sure how macroing is accomplished, screwing with the code i assume. How the hell do people even learn this stuff? Are they the computer programmer guys? If i open those files on my P.C. i understand nothing and imagine it would take a bit of knowledge to be able to manipulate them. Do they teach this stuff in highschool nowadays?

I can pm the answer to you if you wish, I don't want to give any further ideas here

[Jollepoker]

The problem is unattended macroing, when you make your character staying online and grinding skills while you are asleep or spending your time somewhere else.



I can pm the answer to you if you wish, I don't want to give any further ideas here

Why is this a problem? It's just the same as if you were staying up mindlessly pressing those same buttons. Which means it does not do anything you could not do and often not in any way you could not do (or even at the speed you could not do). Why is it important for you to lose eyesight and brain functionality just to gain skill points? When you macro you basically tell the computer "Here is something I've already done a 100 times, now please... As I have no intention of doing this over and over for another 1000000 times, please do it for me in exactly the same way I've done it". It's like asking your friend to play the game for you while you sleep.

But perhaps owning an account with a friend taking shifts sleeping/playing is considered cheating too.

[Niburu]

Im not sure how macroing is accomplished, screwing with the code i assume. How the hell do people even learn this stuff? Are they the computer programmer guys? If i open those files on my P.C. i understand nothing and imagine it would take a bit of knowledge to be able to manipulate them. Do they teach this stuff in highschool nowadays?

lol are you trolling ?

A macro is nothing else as virtual keyboard. instead that your keyboard send this signal for a key a program sends this command to windows. this is not rocket sience

[Dirt]

ok, its not rocket sience.

[orious13]

One person drops tribe and both hide in front of each other. Two lots of skill gain for the price of one.

... next!

Sure.... that makes more sense than just tap tap tap.

[Jadzia]

Why is this a problem? It's just the same as if you were staying up mindlessly pressing those same buttons. Which means it does not do anything you could not do and often not in any way you could not do (or even at the speed you could not do). Why is it important for you to lose eyesight and brain functionality just to gain skill points? When you macro you basically tell the computer "Here is something I've already done a 100 times, now please... As I have no intention of doing this over and over for another 1000000 times, please do it for me in exactly the same way I've done it". It's like asking your friend to play the game for you while you sleep.

But perhaps owning an account with a friend taking shifts sleeping/playing is considered cheating too.

Actually you are suggesting that all of us should start with 100 points on every stats, with maxed out skills and having all the recipes, since you find the process which gets you there boring and useless. Thats a point too, but why to play the game then ? No wonder that the macroers complain that they are already bored. If I macroed my skills up I would be bored as well.

Honestly, if you feel the need to macro that means the game is not for you, since you find it boring. You probably don't get the feeling of achievement when you reach a goal you've set to yourself. I'd suggest you to try another game with instant gratification.

[Jollepoker]

Actually you are suggesting that all of us should start with 100 points on every stats, with maxed out skills and having all the recipes, since you find the process which gets you there boring and useless. Thats a point too, but why to play the game then ? No wonder that the macroers complain that they are already bored. If I macroed my skills up I would be bored as well.

Honestly, if you feel the need to macro that means the game is not for you, since you find it boring. You probably don't get the feeling of achievement when you reach a goal you've set to yourself. I'd suggest you to try another game with instant gratification.

I did not at all say that I wanted us to start with 100 in every skill. What I meant is that this system is a "the longer you sit and press this button, the better you be when you actually start playing" kind of system, which in practice is a macro system (either by being the macro yourself, or creating one). With such a system, there is no achievement as you realize the second you've gained a skill point how utterly pointless and stupid it was of you to spend so many hours endlessly pressing that one button without doing anything else for so little a "achievement".

As the systems are right now (that is the standard MMO concept of "Press button x times for xx hours > Gain skill" instead of "Use skill in a cool way + something else > Gain skill") they are indeed pretty boring, I will not deny that. However, that is not the only thing wrong with it. It's the ONLY thing you can do right now, with everything else either turned off or too laggy/broken to actually do.

Saying that this isn't a "instant gratification" game is also wrong. As all you have to do to get that "satisfaction" is to press the same button endlessly/do the same thing endlessly without any variation what so ever. You don't need to interact with other people and you don't need to actively play. All you need to do is press a button. I can actually see more satisfaction in playing a game which at least brings you forward and shows you new stuff all the time even though it tells you exactly how to reach those things.

But thats just how Xsyon is today. It may (hopefully) change later.

[ifireallymust]

I'm quite sure both my mouse and keyboard are capable of playing Xsyon for me while I sleep or am otherwise occupied.

I'm also quite sure I won't figure out how to get either of them to do so because it's against the ToS.

Since I'm following the rules, everyone who doesn't will either be punished for breaking the rules or will have an advantage over me and other rule followers in game. If the latter, I think a lot of people will stop playing, and I might be one of them.