If you cant lose your Totem....what's the Endgame?

[BigCountry]

This game has some incredible potential. An open world with terraforming has a great deal of appeal. However, if the ability to terraform and create keeps/strongholds is purely for aesthetics, then an incredible opportunity will be lost. A system which allows one to to seek defensible locations for asset creation...but does not also allow some form of competitive asset destruction...will be truly tragic IMHO.

I urge the developers of Xsyon to create a balanced, compelling and entertaining system of both asset construction and destruction. The framework is certainly there...it need only be fleshed out.

Well said.

I think when they release the zombie AI (from the green haze), the AI should target totems. If you have not built walls (mechanism to keep the zombies out), the zombies will destroy your totem (over a balanced time frame or something).

This would warm the players up to what other players will do etc when they remove the safe zones and bring in war and asset destruction.

Sorta thinking mindcraft here.

[Gradishar]

The only thing that makes me iffy is the whole tribal seiging thing, if you were in a post apocalyptic world you would have someone on watch at the tribe at all times and people would only leave to get supplies and such. This is a game, so you cannot have that. That's why I think tribal safezones are good.

I absolutely agree. I played SB in beta when assets could be destroyed 24/7. There was nothing worse than logging in to discovered your city a smoldering ruin because you decided to get some sleep. Assets should be immune from destruction except during designated periods of sieging/warfare/whateveryouwanttocallit. Knowing when you need to defend is essential for maintaining a long term (and happy) player base. However, I am against making such areas generally "safe" from pvp. Does this mean that crafters should be unable to sit inside their cities and weave baskets? No...not at all. If a basket weaver builds walls to keep intruders out...and builds gates that can be locked by the tribe...then (and only then) their village (at least within their walls) WOULD be safe from attackers until the seige/warfare period is initiated. If a crafter does not build such a keep/stronghold/defensive position...than yes...if he's sitting next to his totem making baskets (without walls or a locked gate)...then he should be able to be killed/camped by roving bands of marauders.

I always thought that a post-apocalyptic world carried certain inherent violent implications. I guess I didn't realize post-apocalypse was actually a euphemism for crafters paradise.

[Mitsarugii]

this game has an awesome crafting system, and unbelieveable town creation system and develepment system and MASSIVE potential for a social MMO ... all the tribe warfare and siege blah blah blah blah system will do is discourage ppl from putting any effort into building their townships up.

whats the point of spending time building a spot up into a nice little township if some other tribe of douches can come along and go " ooh u know what, i like the way the flowers grow here and the sun hits the plains so lets walk all over this tribe of 5-10 pplk with our tribe of 100 and claim it as our own because i need a new location to build a summer house" ..... darkfall was a great game and gave u all the options u needed todo something likee this but with Xyson i personally are paying for this game BECAUSE of the crafting system and how u can just build a small town in a spot u find untaken and then craft stuff or hunt monsters etc etc etc

the whole " aaaaaaargh my epeen is bigger then urs and my <<guild> is biggers then yours so i now take all your toys for myself just because i can" style of gameplay is OLD AND FRANKLY BORING. why for ONCE cant we have an awesome game designed for so0cial exploration and play ????? i mean if you are THAT desperate to gang up on ppl and rape their stuff to satisfy your egos then go play EVE or go donate money to Bethesda to win the court case thats stopping them from making Fallout Online

[Xidian]

Okay, I think I agree with the seiging options. The defender should be able to chose the seiging times, also the defender should have an advantage. Like they can shoot attackers from atop their tower. I don't think any seiging equipment should be implemented for AWHILE. That way defenders get an advantage, and once seiging equipment is introduced there needs to be a counter to the seiging equipment to keep it balanced.

[Proto]

I really have hope for this community yet. I honestly do. Its almost like a cute little baby tiger that has the potential to really pwn some peoples faces off...or get caught by a zoo keeper and be caged all day and have cute little stuffed baby tigers for sale all around its safe home and takes pictures with chinese tourists all day.

/sarcasm off

Glad I got so many panties in a bind. Good to see you are all alive and really concerned about this game. Hopefully, in 6 months, many will see the potential that im talking about with siege warfare. So many people get appalled when they see words like "asset destruction" and "ffa pvp".

Stressing it - I'm not personally trying to make this game a clone of any other. I'm simply trying to seek out optimistic ideas and open-minded people that hopefully see how great the potential for this game is. NOT ruin it as a whole regardless of one's own personal beliefs.

hay, enough wit the cats okay? I'm deeply sensitive.

[Proto]

I agree that things would be different in a post apocalyptic world, and what I meant by RL is that "RL if it were post apocalyptic".

I'm glad that you know in a post apoc world, things would be different and not everyone would be fuckin happy happy joy joy with each other singing cumbaya around a campfire.

People would be dying, people would be stealing, people would be doing whatever it takes to survive. I've seen far too many posts going "blah blah you don't know what would happen if there were some crisis apocalypse."

Yeah, we do. Shit would go down hill. It's pretty easy to work it all out.

[Proto]

I absolutely agree. I played SB in beta when assets could be destroyed 24/7. There was nothing worse than logging in to discovered your city a smoldering ruin because you decided to get some sleep. Assets should be immune from destruction except during designated periods of sieging/warfare/whateveryouwanttocallit. Knowing when you need to defend is essential for maintaining a long term (and happy) player base. However, I am against making such areas generally "safe" from pvp. Does this mean that crafters should be unable to sit inside their cities and weave baskets? No...not at all. If a basket weaver builds walls to keep intruders out...and builds gates that can be locked by the tribe...then (and only then) their village (at least within their walls) WOULD be safe from attackers until the seige/warfare period is initiated. If a crafter does not build such a keep/stronghold/defensive position...than yes...if he's sitting next to his totem making baskets (without walls or a locked gate)...then he should be able to be killed/camped by roving bands of marauders.

I always thought that a post-apocalyptic world carried certain inherent violent implications. I guess I didn't realize post-apocalypse was actually a euphemism for crafters paradise.

qft

good post as usual

[ifireallymust]

this game has an awesome crafting system, and unbelieveable town creation system and develepment system and MASSIVE potential for a social MMO ... all the tribe warfare and siege blah blah blah blah system will do is discourage ppl from putting any effort into building their townships up.

whats the point of spending time building a spot up into a nice little township if some other tribe of douches can come along and go " ooh u know what, i like the way the flowers grow here and the sun hits the plains so lets walk all over this tribe of 5-10 pplk with our tribe of 100 and claim it as our own because i need a new location to build a summer house" ..... darkfall was a great game and gave u all the options u needed todo something likee this but with Xyson i personally are paying for this game BECAUSE of the crafting system and how u can just build a small town in a spot u find untaken and then craft stuff or hunt monsters etc etc etc

the whole " aaaaaaargh my epeen is bigger then urs and my <<guild> is biggers then yours so i now take all your toys for myself just because i can" style of gameplay is OLD AND FRANKLY BORING. why for ONCE cant we have an awesome game designed for so0cial exploration and play ????? i mean if you are THAT desperate to gang up on ppl and rape their stuff to satisfy your egos then go play EVE or go donate money to Bethesda to win the court case thats stopping them from making Fallout Online

This is my issue with the whole thing. And I think an easy fix would be to make it so that, no matter how big or small your tribe (right down to the misanthropic mud hut dwelling solo player) if you put in the time, skill, and effort to build fortifications, no tribe, no matter how large, is going to be able to get in.

This need not apply to outposts and settlements in all areas, just the starting ones and whatever land is opened up for starter areas in the future.

Why do I get the feeling the next post will complain this is unrealistic and stupid, numbers always triumph in real life, and no mud hut dwelling misanthrope is going to hold off 100 enemies no matter how well she builds her walls?

Waits...

[Proto]

this game has an awesome crafting system, and unbelieveable town creation system and develepment system and MASSIVE potential for a social MMO ... all the tribe warfare and siege blah blah blah blah system will do is discourage ppl from putting any effort into building their townships up.

I'm sorry Mits, but 6 years of playing Shadowbane, a game with regular city construction and asset destruction, proves you wrong in that it discourages people from putting any effort into building their towns up. SB was possibly the best (imo the best) city building and sieging game to have hit the market, and regardless that any city on the map could be torn down, people NEVER stopped building them, NEVER stopped upgarding them. Hell, even in Darkfall they kept building, and that game was terribad.

Now I'm not saying that pvp won't discourage people from building their cities here, it probably will, I've noticed that there's some pretty weak minded folks here, but my experience in SB proves your statement otherwise.

[Bridger]

I suppose I'm what the uber-warriors would call a stone carebear. As I've already said elsewhere, personally I have no interest in PvP. I'm not good at it. I don't get much enjoyment out of it. I'd rather build than destroy.

But that being said...

I don't want to see a PvP-less Xsyon. I don't want to see that because building without risk of destruction will quickly become an empty, boring pursuit. Perfect safety would drain all the purpose out of construction and creation.

As I see it, the trick is to balance the risk against the reward. If I can build a beautiful sandcastle only to have the first mindless bully to come along kick it down, what's my motivation to build another? (Assuming I'm not a masochist, which I'm not.) But if I can build a beautiful sandcastle that is safe from destruction, and then use it as a base from which to move down the beach to try and build another... and if some bully does kick that one down... Well, then I have a choice don't I? I can go back to my safe, beautiful creation and hide in the shadows and eventually get bored to the point that I risk another attempt at building that second castle down the beach. Or maybe I can content myself with making buckets and shovels (and swords and spears) and supplying them to the more adventurous types who get enjoyment out of building sandcastles further down the beach and then defending them.

Now I realize there would have to be some details worked out. But I don't see why this wouldn't be a workable core model for Xsyon. It works pretty well for EVE Online, anyway.

And speaking of workable mechanics and borrowing from EVE, that could be a solution for the question of how siege warfare would work in Xsyon. Make besieging a fortified position a protracted affair, just like it is in the real world. You don't destroy a fortified position in a matter of minutes. At the very least - and perhaps depending on the level of fortification present - you'd be talking a matter of hours.

Perhaps even days.