If you cant lose your Totem....what's the Endgame?

[Redemp]

I don't mind your system Coca , it needs a bit more work and clarification but its a good base ... as a matter of fact thats how I thought the war system would work.
I think asset destruction should be limited to those windows as well though, even being an old school pvper I won't enjoy having my town attacked for the sole purpose of " we just wanted to destroy your stuff". I also think that upon declaring war upon a tribe if those windows are implemented BOTH tribal areas should be open for asset damage and totem destruction. This I attacked and you must defend stuff is for the birds ... I want to see actual repercussion for arbitraily attacking another tribe.

[coca]

Thats what I was thinking.. anyone in a war both ways would be vulnerable during the same time frame.

I could get super refined.. how and when a war could be declared.. if both sides had to "agree to it" if it "costs anything" how long they would last for.. and if a "truce" could be called to end it. This was just some random thoughts hopeing to gauge a basic idea.

Thanks for the input I look forward to hearing more people come up with some stuff.

I just think the randomness of the "totem wars" would be fun and bring another level to the combat and offer the crafter a little more safety then totally opening it up to 100% asset destruction all the time.

[Mitsarugii]

from what i can see all ppl are talking about is a modified or varied system that they use/used ( played it at release and quit a month or so later ) in Darkfall

just jog on back to darkfall if u want that. the game ISNT RELEASED yet, so stop whining about all the pvp changes you want implemented ingame and play iot for what it is when it comes out. they haver said pvp stuff will be coming into the game eventually sao wait and see what they say is gonna happen THEN make comments about it and what u would like to see

[NexAnima]

Thats what I was thinking.. anyone in a war both ways would be vulnerable during the same time frame.

I could get super refined.. how and when a war could be declared.. if both sides had to "agree to it" if it "costs anything" how long they would last for.. and if a "truce" could be called to end it. This was just some random thoughts hopeing to gauge a basic idea.

Thanks for the input I look forward to hearing more people come up with some stuff.

I just think the randomness of the "totem wars" would be fun and bring another level to the combat and offer the crafter a little more safety then totally opening it up to 100% asset destruction all the time.

Here's a hypothetical abuse of the system of war. Tribe 1 wars tribe2, Tribe 2 agrees but not before having a member leave the tribe and set up a homestead. Thus before the war actually happens all supplies are moved from tribe 2 to the homestead. leading to the destruction of a ghost town.

[BigCountry]

Here's a hypothetical abuse of the system of war. Tribe 1 wars tribe2, Tribe 2 agrees but not before having a member leave the tribe and set up a homestead. Thus before the war actually happens all supplies are moved from tribe 2 to the homestead. leading to the destruction of a ghost town.

That woud be fine. It would still be considered a win for Tribe 1. They are after the land. They would place a new totem there.

[Bridger]

How about a system where it costs the aggressor as much to knock something down as it takes the defender to build it in the first place? Again, I point to the successful EVE Online model. You don't just waltz into a hostile system on the spur of the moment because you have a sudden itch to 'knock shit down.' If you try that in an even marginally organized hostile system, you get your head handed to you on a stick. (And if the hostile system isn't even marginally organized... well, maybe there's a lesson to be learned from that too.)

I'll say again what's been said several times already: IF the PvP is for a purpose, IF it's true competition with victory going to the better prepared, better organized contender - aggressor or defender - IF the system takes into account the fact that to have carebears supporting your war economy, you have to make some allowances for their orientation toward something other than 'all war, all the time', then I'll be here for a while. But if Xsyon becomes just another gratification fix for people who only want to 'knock shit down' because it makes them feel like they've accomplished something, do it without me.

[NexAnima]

How about a system where it costs the aggressor as much to knock something down as it takes the defender to build it in the first place? Again, I point to the successful EVE Online model. You don't just waltz into a hostile system on the spur of the moment because you have a sudden itch to 'knock shit down.' If you try that in an even marginally organized hostile system, you get your head handed to you on a stick. (And if the hostile system isn't even marginally organized... well, maybe there's a lesson to be learned from that too.)

I'll say again what's been said several times already: IF the PvP is for a purpose, IF it's true competition with victory going to the better prepared, better organized contender - aggressor or defender - IF the system takes into account the fact that to have carebears supporting your war economy, you have to make some allowances for their orientation toward something other than 'all war, all the time', then I'll be here for a while. But if Xsyon becomes just another gratification fix for people who only want to 'knock shit down' because it makes them feel like they've accomplished something, do it without me.

Eve has turrets, we should have War Bears!

[chaosegg]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbvKrH-GC4

That is all.

YAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!

@OP:
I am concerned with the balance of not being able to lose or get rid of totems as well.
What if someone doesn't log in for a week? Weeks? Month, months? Seems a waste that someone can't take/use the space.

EVE-Online is the best example I can think of, so if you don't know how territory works in EVE then sorry cause I am not going to write it all out here,
but basically if you don't log in and fuel something, or flip a few switches once in a while, you lose your claim.

Also, in a good game (sandbox or otherwise) you have people who make things (metaphysical things like attack/defense or more physical items), but there is a purpose to making them because you actually need them for something (warfare/survival against people, environment etc).

[BigCountry]

How about a system where it costs the aggressor as much to knock something down as it takes the defender to build it in the first place?

Why have terraforming then? Just make everything static.

The terraforming and construction is the kicker here. It's what makes this so cool and strategic, regardless of tribal war numbers (players).

[Dubanka]

And Shadowbane went free to play in what? 3 years? closed down 3 years later? What was the height of the playerbase for it? i honestly don't know.

Look I'm not saying that destroyable assets are a bad thing, and i like the idea, to an extent, but using Shadowbane as an example, seems somewhat silly to me. Can they take what Shadowbane started and work with it? sure. But its sorta obvious thats not exactly the road you want to go down, especially with a game so deep in crafting as this one. Shadowbane was created for PvPers, that was obvious, this game seems to cater to something different.
.....
Destroyable assets sounds great to me, I just don't think that most of the people that want it, are going to get it in the aspect they wish.....

justt my opinion.

Shadowbane released as a top 10 pc game in 2003...was trying to google the number, but havent quite tracked it down, but i want to say box saless were in the neighborhood of 300K copies within the first week of release. THis was good, but also horribly horribly bad since the servers/code couldnt handle the level of people that descended upon the game. From a box sale perspective the game was a hit. Free to play occurred in 2006, after the TOO expansion (puke). And the game went on to live 3 more years closing in July of 2009.

Defining the 'who' this game caters to is actually an interesting discussion unto itself...simultaneously a fundamental strength and weakness of the game.
Crafter: IT CATERS TO ME!! Look at all the crafting stuff!!
Builder: NO TO ME!! Terraforming! Walls! I can build a kingdom!!
Carebear: *sigh* cant we all just get along? I want to explore and smell the flowers, tame bambi and live a life of peaceful introspection...mmmmmmmm...The combat system is barely developed, so this game can't be about pvp.
PVPr: Uh, i'm here to kill you. FFA World, promised tribal warfare, look at all these weapon and armor options...hmm, we can build walls, that must mean we will be able to rip them down. Sweet. it's obvious this game was built for me.

We're all seeing what we want to see in the sandbox...which is fantastic.

Hopefull the devs have the skill and energy to find a balance to cater to all the audience that is projecting themselves into the game...We'll see.

as a side note, from a market standpoint...the sbemu project at 1,623 'active' members registered on their forums (over 12k total, but bots and all that so that isn't a real number). For every one of those active members, there are probably 5-7 that they have access to (guilds, etc.)/ influence with. Thats a captive audience that currently has nothing worthwhile/satisfactory to play who is WAITING for the 'game' to be made. No, those are not WoW numbers, this is not wow.

Finally

...personally I have no interest in PvP. I'm not good at it. I don't get much enjoyment out of it. I'd rather build than destroy.

Do you have any idea how much pvp groups LOVE dedicated craft people? City builders? Farmers? And i'm not talking about as prey, i'm talking about on their own side. If you ENJOY building cities and walls and terraforming and making the ultimate indestructible, unseigable fortress...that means we can leave it to you and go out and kill stuff.

One of the misconceptions in this game, already, is the pvp and the craft elements are mutually exclusively...Your pvp tribes that are in it (hopefully) for the tribal warfare element will be just as skilled and focused on the craft element as anyone else in the game. It brings a competetive edge to have the absolute best stuff (once 'stuff' actually works ) possible.

You want all the raw materials you can get your hands on? You want tell the L337s what to do? get on board, and tell them you need x, y, and z ingredients in whatever quantities and THEN you'll be able to make them the legendary armor of uberdom. It's even better if ingredient z is only found on somebody elses land. You get to craft to your heart's content, pvprs get to kill people and take their stuff, win win. Hopefully the end result is that someone gets mad enough to come try to burn down your uber fortress (then you can laugh at their feeble skills from atop the walls you built).

If done right it will will all tie seamlessly together.