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Thread: Some critics

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Mactavendish View Post
    what it also involves is tedious over instant gratification.

    Compare limestone walls to wooden walls basically 6 logs and nails to 80 bricks and 20 mortar. The wooden wall takes very little time to make or collect the resources if they are close. Bricks and mortar are very easy to collect but take much more time.

    Folks naturally went with what is the easiest and fastest.

    Make cutting a tree as time consuming to make as say 80 bricks and 20 mortar and They will opt for the limestone since it is much more plentiful and easy to get.

    By making adjustments to durability and quality, woodworkers now have to basically log all day to get high enough skills to make high quality handles for tools and weapons. It may seem like a step in the right direction, but it increases the clear cutting issue even more.

    it has been very few players leveling logging by clear cutting.. it will now be most all those doing woodworking so they can make high/very high quality handles.

    Kinda a 2 steps forward 1 step back sort of thing. Re-spawning the trees is welcome relief, but we REALLY need to be able to grow them .. and not take a year to have a tree be useful.


    I agree with this 100%.
    Most of the problem isnt how fast people can cut trees, its that they don't grow back or re-spawn. But also the fast cutting of trees is still going to be a problem, its way too fast even after they grow back it will be too fast.

    I tried to tell people this before the decay patch, and people were just thinking I was some type of griefer. But now some of the same people calling me a griefer before, are now saying how they will have to clear cut trees also.

    Anyways, Book, your system supports my high skills, why would I disagree with that system when it would benefit me greatly to slow people way down on leveling a skill Im one of the very few that have very high right now?
    My system not only makes skilling slightly faster, but it will also help the trees stay around over all.

    Anyways, I guess we will see once the re-spawn takes place and growth/planting are in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mactavendish View Post
    what it also involves is tedious over instant gratification.

    Compare limestone walls to wooden walls basically 6 logs and nails to 80 bricks and 20 mortar. The wooden wall takes very little time to make or collect the resources if they are close. Bricks and mortar are very easy to collect but take much more time.

    Folks naturally went with what is the easiest and fastest.

    Make cutting a tree as time consuming to make as say 80 bricks and 20 mortar and They will opt for the limestone since it is much more plentiful and easy to get.

    By making adjustments to durability and quality, woodworkers now have to basically log all day to get high enough skills to make high quality handles for tools and weapons. It may seem like a step in the right direction, but it increases the clear cutting issue even more.

    it has been very few players leveling logging by clear cutting.. it will now be most all those doing woodworking so they can make high/very high quality handles.

    Kinda a 2 steps forward 1 step back sort of thing. Re-spawning the trees is welcome relief, but we REALLY need to be able to grow them .. and not take a year to have a tree be useful.


    I agree with this 100%.
    Most of the problem isnt how fast people can cut trees, its that they don't grow back or re-spawn. But also the fast cutting of trees is still going to be a problem, its way too fast even after they grow back it will be too fast.

    I tried to tell people this before the decay patch, and people were just thinking I was some type of griefer. But now some of the same people calling me a griefer before, are now saying how they will have to clear cut trees also.

    Anyways, Book, your system supports my high skills, why would I disagree with that system when it would benefit me greatly to slow people way down on leveling a skill Im one of the very few that have very high right now?
    My system not only makes skilling slightly faster, but it will also help the trees stay around over all.

    Anyways, I guess we will see once the re-spawn takes place and growth/planting are in.

  2. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by MrDDT View Post
    Fix the system.
    Trees should take much more time to chop down, then this "griefing" wouldnt even been seen as griefing because they could only cut about 50 trees a day, and that's not a lot, compared to now.
    Like the chief tent, it takes like 5 hours of work, it should take like 1 or 1.5 hours to take out. Not something done in 5 seconds with a click of the button.
    Drop the chief tent schtick. The tent was half in half out of a tribal zone and that was the ONLY reason you were able to destroy it (and no it wasn't my tribe's tent). As I told you the other night, Leaders of tribes can set permissions that limit what members of their tribe are able to access and do in their own territiories. No player, not a member of a tribe without permission or a non-member player can destroy another's property, whether it be walls, buildings or trees in that tribes territory.

  3. #93
    Here is something for all to think about.

    MrDDT did indeed go all over leveling logging buy cutting trees... that is a well established fact.

    What is not known is what his actual intent was, or if he destroyed any stumps. Doesn't matter if you "believe" he did or not, unless you saw him do it. So I cannot pass judgment on him for that. However I also cannot just buy all he says either as he was a guest tester ( may still be ) that had dev powers, did cut thousands of trees, that he has never been honest in what he says to players in game.

    His suggestion may be workable, but I have no clue if it matches up with what the Dev's vision for the game.

    What I see Jordi and crew developing so far is great in my eyes. With a few tweaks and an adjustment here or there will get us to a very fun and playable game.

    If you make things TOO hard or tedious ... folks will get irritated and just leave.
    Make it too easy and plentiful and folks will get bored and leave.

    It's just like walking on a tightrope. Move the balance bar to far either way and you fall down. Atm the bar is pussed a bit too far one way.. we need it pulled back.

  4. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Mactavendish View Post
    Here is something for all to think about.

    MrDDT did indeed go all over leveling logging buy cutting trees... that is a well established fact.

    What is not known is what his actual intent was, or if he destroyed any stumps. Doesn't matter if you "believe" he did or not, unless you saw him do it. So I cannot pass judgment on him for that. However I also cannot just buy all he says either as he was a guest tester ( may still be ) that had dev powers, did cut thousands of trees, that he has never been honest in what he says to players in game.

    His suggestion may be workable, but I have no clue if it matches up with what the Dev's vision for the game.

    What I see Jordi and crew developing so far is great in my eyes. With a few tweaks and an adjustment here or there will get us to a very fun and playable game.

    If you make things TOO hard or tedious ... folks will get irritated and just leave.
    Make it too easy and plentiful and folks will get bored and leave.

    It's just like walking on a tightrope. Move the balance bar to far either way and you fall down. Atm the bar is pussed a bit too far one way.. we need it pulled back.
    It DOES NOT matter what his intent is or was. Denying your enemy access to resources is a key component of warfare, and if you are not a friend then you are an enemy. The problem is that the system allows trees to be cut down insanely fast and that they don't respawn. The devs need to increase the time it takes to cut down trees and add tree respawning. This shouldn't apply to just trees, the devs need to work on balancing the entire game.

    Right now, the devs "vision" for the game worries me, because it changes on whims and SEVERLY lacks balance.

  5. #95
    I understood when I started playing that limiting resources was a ligit method in this game. I have no problem there.

    But perhaps I was to obtuse for you to get my point, so let me be very plain...

    Things are NOT balanced now and need to be looking into by the developers or they will lose paying players.

    Trees taking an hour to cut, regardless of what exp you get, will also make players leave. This is not really a solution for the long run.

    They have already introduced the dura/quality aspect of crafted items, so to me the true solution is to allow folks to plant trees in farms, make them grow fast as long as you water and feed them, and who care how long it takes to cut down since it's all about your skill and not simply about how many you can cut. Once we can grow our own, make the trees in the wilds non-resources. No more clear cutting, no more deforestation, no more gripes.

    When you allow freedom to get vast quantities of resources based upon how much effort YOU are putting in to the process, folks will find entertainment from it. Just slowing the player down is NOT the solution.

  6. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by China View Post
    Drop the chief tent schtick. The tent was half in half out of a tribal zone and that was the ONLY reason you were able to destroy it (and no it wasn't my tribe's tent). As I told you the other night, Leaders of tribes can set permissions that limit what members of their tribe are able to access and do in their own territiories. No player, not a member of a tribe without permission or a non-member player can destroy another's property, whether it be walls, buildings or trees in that tribes territory.
    I think you missed the point of this, as I went over it about 100 times in IRC with you.
    It takes hours to make a Chief tent. But it only takes people 5 seconds to destroy them. That's where the problem is, NOT permissions or not. I think time spent building should be a factor in how long it takes to destroy a building/wall.
    This is very important for 2 reasons.
    1)Griefers
    2)Siege warfare.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mactavendish View Post
    Here is something for all to think about.

    MrDDT did indeed go all over leveling logging buy cutting trees... that is a well established fact.

    What is not known is what his actual intent was, or if he destroyed any stumps. Doesn't matter if you "believe" he did or not, unless you saw him do it. So I cannot pass judgment on him for that. However I also cannot just buy all he says either as he was a guest tester ( may still be ) that had dev powers, did cut thousands of trees, that he has never been honest in what he says to players in game.

    His suggestion may be workable, but I have no clue if it matches up with what the Dev's vision for the game.

    What I see Jordi and crew developing so far is great in my eyes. With a few tweaks and an adjustment here or there will get us to a very fun and playable game.

    If you make things TOO hard or tedious ... folks will get irritated and just leave.
    Make it too easy and plentiful and folks will get bored and leave.

    It's just like walking on a tightrope. Move the balance bar to far either way and you fall down. Atm the bar is pussed a bit too far one way.. we need it pulled back.

    Did you see my thoughts on how to fix this problem? Making it take longer, yet still reward people for their efforts.


    Quote Originally Posted by mrcalhou View Post
    It DOES NOT matter what his intent is or was. Denying your enemy access to resources is a key component of warfare, and if you are not a friend then you are an enemy. The problem is that the system allows trees to be cut down insanely fast and that they don't respawn. The devs need to increase the time it takes to cut down trees and add tree respawning. This shouldn't apply to just trees, the devs need to work on balancing the entire game.

    Right now, the devs "vision" for the game worries me, because it changes on whims and SEVERLY lacks balance.
    This is my thoughts 100% right there. It shouldnt matter what someone's intent is. It matters that the system shouldnt allow people to clear cut a zone in a few hours.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mactavendish View Post
    I understood when I started playing that limiting resources was a ligit method in this game. I have no problem there.

    But perhaps I was to obtuse for you to get my point, so let me be very plain...

    Things are NOT balanced now and need to be looking into by the developers or they will lose paying players.

    Trees taking an hour to cut, regardless of what exp you get, will also make players leave. This is not really a solution for the long run.

    They have already introduced the dura/quality aspect of crafted items, so to me the true solution is to allow folks to plant trees in farms, make them grow fast as long as you water and feed them, and who care how long it takes to cut down since it's all about your skill and not simply about how many you can cut. Once we can grow our own, make the trees in the wilds non-resources. No more clear cutting, no more deforestation, no more gripes.

    When you allow freedom to get vast quantities of resources based upon how much effort YOU are putting in to the process, folks will find entertainment from it. Just slowing the player down is NOT the solution.

    No one is saying trees should take an hour to cut. But taking 5 seconds is way to fast, to remove those resources. Go back up and reread how I planned on fixing the tree system.

    Just to sum it up. I believe trees should take longer to cut, based on skill, you should get more skill per tree, and more attempts per tree. Also you should have to cut logs off the tree, which would make it take longer and give more resources per tree. Also give you more skill per tree again.

  7. #97
    off topic - Why does destroying stumps even matter? You cant get any material out of a stump can you?

    do trees regrow in the same spot and the stump needs to be there? I think that might not be true.

    Also, I am sure you wont use the destory command to break peoples walls and tents when destorying peoples building is in game If you destoryed a building it did not actually belong to anyone because it was not in tribe lands.

  8. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by goodayve View Post
    off topic - Why does destroying stumps even matter? You cant get any material out of a stump can you?

    do trees regrow in the same spot and the stump needs to be there? I think that might not be true.

    Also, I am sure you wont use the destory command to break peoples walls and tents when destorying peoples building is in game If you destoryed a building it did not actually belong to anyone because it was not in tribe lands.
    Ya I dont know why people care about stumps. They are 100% worthless.

    I think either way they should take longer to destroy. That's some hard work and it shouldnt just go POOF in 5 seconds. Not only is it unrealistic but its not balanced.

    If I build a walled up outpost even if I dont have it on my tribe lands anymore people shouldnt be able to come break it down in about 30s. When it takes weeks of work to put up. Dont you think?

  9. #99
    Yea it would be nice for it to take longer.

    It could maybe be used for some kind of testing for tribe war fare. If they start out just testing how to destroy stuff outside tribe lands.

    But I am not sure how much it is needed. It would be kind of a pain if people destroyed your wall then you want to rebuild it. Then you have to keep moving your totem around.

    I do think they need to possibly change the way totem expansion works. You should probably be able to expand without takeing your totem down, if there is room.

    The game should probably be able to tell if there is enough room to expand or if there are other tribe boarders in the area.

  10. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by goodayve View Post
    Yea it would be nice for it to take longer.

    It could maybe be used for some kind of testing for tribe war fare. If they start out just testing how to destroy stuff outside tribe lands.

    But I am not sure how much it is needed. It would be kind of a pain if people destroyed your wall then you want to rebuild it. Then you have to keep moving your totem around.

    I do think they need to possibly change the way totem expansion works. You should probably be able to expand without takeing your totem down, if there is room.

    The game should probably be able to tell if there is enough room to expand or if there are other tribe boarders in the area.
    It already does this, its based on tribe size.

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