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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadzia View Post
    mrcalhou somewhere suggested this system, he wanted the split the map like 60% PvP zone, 40% safe zone. I'd prefer 50%-50%, its more fair :P
    Trench is just one of those people that thinks a game MUST have ffa-pvp everywhere or it breaks the game. I'd like to cite Darkfall as a reason why ffa-pvp everywhere is a bad idea. I'd like to cite Eve-online as a reason why having such severe consequences for attempting to PvP in the designated safe areas is a good idea.

    When you have ffa-pvp everywhere then people aren't even going to give the game a second glance. When you give players the option of choosing where they want to play at, and especially when you give the players the option to continually choose this without having to completely start over, then you open your game up to a lot more people.

    I see it a lot on game forums. People don't like to play MMOs that have low populations, so they don't play, so the population never increases, so fewer people play. Does anyone else see the catch-22?

    Now giving players a toggle that they can turn on or off anywhere is a bad design decision because it leads to so many possible abuses. Like plopping a safe zone over a super-rare resource. Grant it we don't have any of that in the game yet--the game is just one giant homogenous mass of resources, which is another problem in itself. Oh, and as I've predicted would happen many moons ago, there's an overabundance of crafted goods.

    Honestly, I'm just tired of developers copying all the bad ideas from other games and leaving the good ones behind. Having ffa-pvp everywhere, the same resources everywhere, the same stats on crafted goods, and extremely resilient items doesn't make a game more balanced or realistic. It just makes it boring and stagnate.

  2. #22
    Xsyon Citizen joexxxz's Avatar
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    Well there is a problem if crafters can make 100 gear in less than an hour. And the crafters are just seat there and click click click click. Now multiply that by 10 players, thats like 1000 gear in a hour. Do u see the problem? And for whom are they making the gear, if they are for safe zones, Lol for zombies? If a crafter not in a secure zone, (and I mean not a hard coded secure zone), he/she should worry about being attacked. Second, the items needs to be more difficult to craft. its to way easy right now. There have to be a mini game for crafters. In the real life, it takes days/weeks for someone to craft a rug or something.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by joexxxz View Post
    Well there is a problem if crafters can make 100 gear in less than an hour. And the crafters are just seat there and click click click click. Now multiply that by 10 players, thats like 1000 gear in a hour. Do u see the problem? And for whom are they making the gear, if they are for safe zones, Lol for zombies? If a crafter not in a secure zone, (and I mean not a hard coded secure zone), he/she should worry about being attacked. Second, the items needs to be more difficult to craft. its to way easy right now. There have to be a mini game for crafters. In the real life, it takes days/weeks for someone to craft a rug or something.
    I really dislike realism arguements for a game, but despite that, I do agree with your post. Pvp, resources, territory, crafting, all of these things are connected yet rarely does a developer get it right. It's not even that difficult to find a working example--it's only the largest emergent gameplay MMO.

  4. #24
    Xsyon Citizen joexxxz's Avatar
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    Thanks for agreeing (mrcalhou) with me i guess for the first time The reason why i compare real life, cuz this is the one known reality that make sense for us humans. In this reality everything depends on each other, time, physics, gravity, ect,...
    What if i would told u, that i can run at 100mph, would you believe me, or would u say its impossible. Probably not believe me and i hope. Samething with the game, there have to be some logic in the game, and balance, or else it would make no sense and fun. Im not saying that every detail have to be based on realism, but it should base on some principals and logic. One example of, games based on magic, they are not real but when it make sense, then its fun to play.

  5. #25
    Eve's version of "safe zones" works only to a degree. Players who like to explore are still confined to small areas compared to the size of the game world. And the explores are less likely to have an armada or army to escort them everywhere to protect them from those who think they have to kill everything that moves to have fun. Xsyon is suposed to have trade. But that doesn't work if the traders and crafters have to stay confined to a "safe zone". It makes the game get boring quick and leave. The way games like SWG and Jumpgate handled it are better. (yes starwars galaxy was a major botch up over all. But it came from sony games. what do you expect?) In these games you can choose pvp. You set a pvp flag and after a timer you can set it back. A group is already setup for it here. You have good, neutral and evil. Make good mainly non-pvp. There is already a system in place to lower the standing from good based on player action. Could even make good limited pvp with the option to attack evil players that have engaged in pvp in the last 24-48 hours opening up that good tribe to pvp with the evil tribe for a an hour. Players who want to go around killing mindlessly will be open to attacks from a larger player base making the mindless pk'ers the hunted for a change.

  6. #26
    Xsyon Citizen joexxxz's Avatar
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    Yes, if the player is evil and that player dont like to craft, that player wont have the best gear there is. And if the crafters are on a good side, they wont trade with the evil player, making that player have less in defense.
    If the evil player like to attack everything that moves, his/her equipment is going to be damage much quicker, meaning he/she will only have the basic items all the time, unless the player will find a crafter that is willing to trade for safety from others or his/hers.

  7. #27
    Trench is just one of those people
    Glad to see I have a label now.

    I'd like to cite Darkfall
    Darkfall is a pvp arena masquerading as a world building sandbox. If I wanted that I'd be there. Same goes for MO. Eve is a different beast than this game entirely which we could go on about all day.

    I want crafting and world building just as much as I want to experience the dangers of living in a post-apoc world. So let's stop pretending everyone who wants an open pvp environment is also against everything non-pvp related.

    When you have ffa-pvp everywhere then people aren't even going to give the game a second glance.
    Correction. Some people. And that's good. You don't invite someone who wants to play blackjack to sit down at the roulette table. Please everyone, end up pleasing no one.

    and especially when you give the players the option to continually choose this without having to completely start over, then you open your game up to a lot more people.
    Of course you do, because everyone wants to win! Always. All the time. Every time.

    People like me just want a game where we can have the opportunity to loose. But that frightens some of you.

    We just want a game where the players have the freedom to make the game what it is.

    If you leave it to the players to make their own safe zones, by building walls and cities, and protecting the non-pvp element, guess what? THEY WILL! And subsequently there WILL be safe zones.

    But that isn't safe enough for some of you. In fact, you don't want a 'game (competition)' at all. You want a sim.

    Honestly, I'm just tired of developers copying all the bad ideas from other games and leaving the good ones behind.
    I really dislike realism arguements for a game
    You and me both.

    Not for nothin', but I don't tow an FFA party line. I already admitted here and elsewhere that some of the suggestions about warlike/peaceful safe zones sounded like they are worth at least more discussion if not an attempt.

  8. #28
    Xsyon Citizen joexxxz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trenchfoot View Post
    I want crafting and world building just as much as I want to experience the dangers of living in a post-apoc world. So let's stop pretending everyone who wants an open pvp environment is also against everything non-pvp related.
    Good point +5

    Im happy that Jadzia is sleeping right now, or else she would be complaining how our ideas are so bad

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by joexxxz View Post
    Good point +5

    Im happy that Jadzia is sleeping right now, or else she would be complaining how our ideas are so bad
    I'm not sleeping

  10. #30
    To get back to my original point it is this:

    When you designate a pvp area and implement non-pvp areas, you are basically sending players to the smokers lounge. That's what it is.

    Our(open worlders) hope is this: if they get things right, non-pvp players will be our most valuable asset as pvprs, which by necessity makes their protection of vital interest and prime importance.

    And this what what I personally am hoping they get right, that no one else has come close to since UO.

    Yes I am arguing for open pvp with no safe zone mechanics. But on the same token, I'm also arguing for a higher importance/value for crafters and world builders. If THEY are a dime a dozen with no real effect, then I will like this game about as much as I like DF or MO.

    In fact, we should have master craftsmen that are so rare they become famous for their works. So, like the famous sword makers of Japan, their crafted items become highly prized and the stuff of legends.

    Also, magic always sounds flakey to me so I'm biased in that regard. Some home field advantage does sound like a neat idea though.

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