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  1. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadzia View Post
    Why would you fight over useless things ? Just because ?
    A lot of people will pvp just for fun.

    A lot of people will craft and build just for fun. (If you are having fun crafting etc., yet saying that it's semi-pointless as well. The right foot also has a right shoe to run with [that's probably the craziest thing I've ever said...even if that doesn't make sense just run with it lol...err no pun intended].)

    These people may not necessarily play the game forever as the people who do it for a "reason" might, but a lot of people that want pvp might actually be partially if not entirely satisfied with just pvping for fun. I wouldn't feel out of place saying the majority of gamers in the world (not just here) just want to go out and kill shtuff. That's why themeparks appeal to a lot of people.

  2. #172
    Well, I am pretty sure more people are in Xsyon for the crafting and building than for the PvP. It would be great to have both, but there are lots of other MMOs with PvP. Likely far better PvP than Xsyon will EVER provide.

    The devs should focus on what makes Xsyon special.

  3. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Azhul_NS View Post
    Well, I am pretty sure more people are in Xsyon for the crafting and building than for the PvP. It would be great to have both, but there are lots of other MMOs with PvP. Likely far better PvP than Xsyon will EVER provide.
    That clearly shows what little you know. That must be why they are overhauling Combat, adding farms and expansion Totems.

  4. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadzia View Post
    The problem is that PvP can't create a need if th items themselves are useless. Why would you need an armor ? They do nothing. Why would you need a weapon? Your PO weapon is better than anything. You took over a land ? How nice. Why did you do that though ? To gain more absolutely pointless and useless buildings ? They are only for vanity even with PvP.
    This is what I'm saying. With the current system (as in items have no use) PvP wouldn't have any use either, just as crafting has no use. Why would you fight over useless things ? Just because ?
    Now let us assume the devs actually bother to fix items, which they should if they want to keep people playing and paying a sub, then Dubanka's post is perfectly correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanover View Post
    That clearly shows what little you know.
    But, Hanover, he's right! The 10 or so people that are logged-in at anyone time probably breaks down like this: 2 people are devs, 1 is a pvper, and 7 are crafters.

  5. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by mrcalhou View Post

    But, Hanover, he's right! The 10 or so people that are logged-in at anyone time probably breaks down like this: 2 people are devs, 1 is a pvper, and 7 are crafters.
    HarHar... There are at least 3 PvPer in game atm. Im rolling up some "Green Jeans" as we speak

  6. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Azhul_NS View Post
    Well, I am pretty sure more people are in Xsyon for the crafting and building than for the PvP. It would be great to have both, but are lots of other MMOs with PvP. Likely far better PvP than Xsyon will EVER provide.
    I need to stop referring to PvP as a combat only thing, but anyway. That's fine for me and probably a lot of people out there that don't want another combat sandbox. As I said before I'm in the center. The new dev posted that building the world will be more of a point to the game at least at the moment... that's also stated a lot of other places. If this game gets great at crafting and building and the struggle to survive be it by npc or player monsters, that alone might be what the industry needs right now. Rift/WoW/Themeparks in general. All of those are more about killing stuff (themeparks are really without much meaning). DF...I guess MO...killing stuff, but with a little more meaning. As much as all of that is needed for a well rounded game killing stuff is what brings in a lot of money, but it's also the most widely available play choice. I loved playing SB, L2, SWG (I RARELY PvPed...but it was available a lot of the time in the open world). I have to say the game I played the longest was L2...don't judge me. I was never "great" in that because greatness was so limited to very few.

    The point being... if crafting, building is > in development task priority than combat-pvp systems. That might not actually be a terrible thing. The reason why sandboxes are dying is because of the current combat-pvp systems just as much as because of the lack of available sand. No, I'm not saying that combat should be fail. I'm just saying that the amount of combat pvp in DF and MO (Note it's been like a year or 2 since I played them) kind of breaks immersion for me instead of adding to it. SB was fine. L2 was fine (not a themepark...not a sandbox...was a themebox). I just hope they tone this mindset down at least a couple notches or five, but still allow for fun pvp.

    It doesn't need to own the world. It just needs to occupy it.

    That's how I think anyway. Flame on Human Torches...Flame on.

  7. #177
    the problem is there is always people that say Combat = PvP which it doesn't.
    The other thing is that some gamers are getting tired of the theme park mmo's out there and Sandboxes are the natural progression of those play choices. how ever you do need a combat system because with out being able to kill stuff you basically have ATITD.

  8. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by xyberviri View Post
    the problem is there is always people that say Combat = PvP which it doesn't.
    The other thing is that some gamers are getting tired of the theme park mmo's out there and Sandboxes are the natural progression of those play choices. how ever you do need a combat system because with out being able to kill stuff you basically have ATITD.
    Whats ATITD and is it curable?

  9. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadzia View Post
    The problem is that PvP can't create a need if th items themselves are useless. Why would you need an armor ? They do nothing. Why would you need a weapon? Your PO weapon is better than anything. You took over a land ? How nice. Why did you do that though ? To gain more absolutely pointless and useless buildings ? They are only for vanity even with PvP.
    This is what I'm saying. With the current system (as in items have no use) PvP wouldn't have any use either, just as crafting has no use. Why would you fight over useless things ? Just because ?
    I actually agree with you.
    VD has argued for a long time that PO weapons need to be significantly nerfed.
    We have also argued that the insignificance of gear (armor/clothing) was a major problem.

    VD has argued since we first showed up on these forums that pvp needs a point. Pointless pvp is boring pvp. Sometimes you fight to pick a fight, but usually you fight over something. To extend my economic model from before:

    harvest raw materials --> crafted goods --> goods get destroyed through use --> need for new goods --> locate raw materials source --> secure raw materials --> harvest raw materials

    The point of contention in this model is the securing of the materials. You are either doing this by holding the land, or taking/stealing/buying it from the person who does hold the land, or taking over the land. This is your conflict point. The conflict point then drives the pvp cycle (craft gear --> pvp --> craft replacement /better gear)...there is always an arms race (assuming of course the gear is not worthless, as it is now).

    Pointless pvp wont work. If pointless pvp worked, this game would be thriving...because pvp is completely and utterly pointless right now. Most people, even those that are 100% uber rabid pvp fans, enjoy having a point behind their action...it's the achiever piece of the bartles equation. PvP in a a territorial war has a couple phases.
    I- rpk. random walking around opportunity killing. ie. what we have now. dude on on a trash hill not paying attention to his surroundings...guess ill kill him and take his stuff.
    II- reprisal pk - dude comes back and camps your town in penalty for killing.
    III- resource pvp - fighting over resource zones/nodes/mob spawns.
    IV- asset wars- usually an escalation from reprisal or resource pvp. Sometimes purely expansionist.

    We have players that like to pick fights...they like I & II. We have more players that like the team based focus that you get with III. All like when the skirmishing culminates in the 'real' game, which is defending your house, or trying to burn someone else's down. There isn't anything quite like fighting to defend something you've spent a large amount of time making, or fighting someone who is trying to protect their own investement. It's a completely different level of intensity as compared to I-III. It's not oftent that you find real emotion (fear, desparate, elation, even pride) in a video game...but the fights we've had bring that out.

    1. Fix the Mechanics.
    2. Fix the Gear.
    3. Implement Resources.
    4. Implement Seiging mechanics.

    OK, finally. To drive home the 'need' to get some type of resource, that is where the totem expansion idea i posted comes in. There has to be a constant consumable requirement, for a consumable that does not currently exist. Everyone wants to make their tribe bigger, badder, whatever. Everyone wants a 6 story totem. Go get the unobtanium, and its cousin cantgetthisOre, and rank up your totem. oh, it takes 10 of each, per week, to maintain. Now you have a reason to get something, a reason to fight for something, so you have a reason to get gear, etc. etc. etc.

    anyway. TLDR, i know. apologies.

  10. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Hanover View Post
    Whats ATITD and is it curable?
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    A Tale in the Desert is a social MMORPG which does not include combat. Instead, a variety of social activities provide for the basis of most interaction in the game. The game's main focuses are building, community, research and personal or group challenges called "Tests".
    ten characters.

    edit in response to Dubanka:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dubanka View Post
    OK, finally. To drive home the 'need' to get some type of resource, that is where the totem expansion idea i posted comes in. There has to be a constant consumable requirement, for a consumable that does not currently exist. Everyone wants to make their tribe bigger, badder, whatever. Everyone wants a 6 story totem. Go get the unobtanium, and its cousin cantgetthisOre, and rank up your totem. oh, it takes 10 of each, per week, to maintain. Now you have a reason to get something, a reason to fight for something, so you have a reason to get gear, etc. etc. etc.
    Agreed with everything you said as always in the entirety of your post. Responding to this part of your quote- thats a really brilliant idea and i think it wouldnt be that hard to implement. Theres currently only one "rare" resource, which is tar, which currently has no known use. We need something else, a tar equivalent, that makes more sense to build up and sustain totems. Obviously for smaller tribes the requirement to stay afloat would be significantly less demanding, maybe requiring only fairlyuncommon-acquirium, and then to increase size/power/what-have-you, they need more and more unobtainium per week.

    In response to your quote about the "I-III" types of pkers; i would put the vast majority of the current darkfall players, right now, in one of those three. People in darkfall go out, alone or in groups, looking for nothing more than a good fight. They dont fight for greater reasons than the thrill of competition, success, and winning. The success of their kill(s) are embodied, and amplified, by the caliber of gear their opponent was wearing. People fight in that game for pride very often, and once in a while a city gets challenged and that relates more to your "5" type of pvper, but the most common fighting is 1 or 2. You would be surprised by how many people would be out and about in this game, myself included, were the pvp mechanics and the weapons/armor stats fixed.

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