Are contested totems the best way for land control

[Hanover]

blah

So ideally... You people want to sit in your bubble crafting, only to have said item rot and decay so you can craft them again? This would give you a sense of accomplishment???
Sounds like "Whac-A-Mole" requiring the same skill set.

[Koll]

What a worthless warfare system that would be.

The whole point of a Conquest feature is that... you know... things get conquered. People will lose their land if they dont fight for it. Get used to that idea. I can attest to its success in Darkfall and others can attest to it's success in other mmos. I personally was involved in the manual building of a huge city in Darkfall, at launch of EU server, called kvitstein. The first two or three weeks all any of the 30 of my guild did was build that city. Eventually we just gave it up, and i had to accept the fact that something i wrought with my hands and time was taken from me. Its happened over and over. The only people in that game that cry about losing their land are the ones who deserve to lose it.

This system is counter balanced by the community itself. In darkfall, when a small guild with a small plot of land got sieged by a large clan with a zerg of members, the server knew about it, and many, many times, the server would respond in defense of the small guild against the zerg. There is a big public relations penalty for zerging down small clans with their own little properties in darkfall and id bet it would happen here too.

Nothing would be a greater disappointment than a conquest system where nothing is conquered.

You are missing the point that some folks here dont want to partake in the wars. They got to find a balance to keep the competitive -pvp hungry guys like you and the "Sandcastle" builders. It is a sandbox, but I dont think they will force people to go to war if they dont want too. They have been trying to find a balance since they proposed a peace and war server (which didnt go throught anyway).

[mrcalhou]

Asset destruction is a must if they want to promote the economy; I fear wear over time decay won't be enough--it isn't in Darkfall.

I don't believe that PvP should be allowed anywhere, anytime unless players can also build structures for protection like archery towers and hire/outfit NPC guards (you know, the kind that doesn't need to log-off for work or sleep). I also think that some of the game world should be set aside as completely safe, with the most common mobs and resources so new players can get their feet wet without fearing being ganked, and so players can play, while advancing their characters, in safety without being able to completely flood the economy with all sorts of items; just the most basic of equipment, or resources that are needed in extremely high quantities anyway for other recipes.

I think they should get rid of the concept of an "expansion totem" and just allow players to build structures and terraform at their leisure in those areas; while allowing claimable land, like it is in the game now, in areas that don't have rare resources and the resources that are near-by are also needed in significant amounts for most recipes that they are used in.

Alignment should be tribe and person dependent; not "good" or "evil." Either, I personally like a tribe or person or I don't. I don't want the game telling me that I don't like them. I want to be able to set that for myself. This way defensive structures can be set to attack anyone on my dislike list on sight.

[NorCalGooey]

you've obviously never played a game that featured asset destruction.
they are only pixels. It is only free time. And you invest your free time in a game. part of the game is asset destruction/capture.
That's why you play. you win some, you lose some. when you lose, you put on your big boy pants, rebuild and go look to get some pay back.
never build anything you cant afford to lose.
If you want to build a giant monument to your greatness? OUtstanding...just understand that someone may take it as a challenge. I've got city builders who spend inordinate amounts of time working tod design 'the perfect fortress'. is it necessary? not really. Is it gratifying to have something you create withstand attack after attack after attack? absolutely.
when you lose one does it suck. alot? definitely.
but it's jsut a game. and they are only pixels.

And you still don't get it.

Destruction of everything for MULTIPLE PLAYERS (all the tribe members) equals those players never playing again. I am fine with siege damage to walls and all that.

They are only pixels but it is my time invested. Here's a VERY simple way to get an awesome city without an work involved whatsoever. Get a bunch of PvPers to join a tribe together, they have a totem down but nothing built in it. Then they decide to go steal someone elses heavily terraformed tribe lands that looks really awesome and has 500+ limestone walls and tents everywhere

I GUARANTEE YOU THIS WILL NOT BE THE SYSTEM. GUARANTEE IT

That's why they have expansion totems, how do you not get that? The expansion totems are the capture able land...how you can be calling for original totems to be fully capture able and converted to another tribes control is completely ludicrous and it is NOT happening.

Like I said, please justify why this would be a good idea. I've spent over 200 hours on my tribe land and just like the rest of the population, if there was a roll back to mid March, we would quit

Getting EVERYTHING taken is the same as a rollback. That is why people complain about rollbacks. It is playing for no reason and that is what original totem capture involves. People know going into it that an expansion totem may be captured so it may not be the most wise to put a lot of effort into that area if you care to see it gone.

this is just extra land, everyone deserves one HOME area.

It doesn't matter if a few players want this, nowhere near enough want it to fill the game world of Xsyon.

Added after 5 minutes:

So ideally... You people want to sit in your bubble crafting, only to have said item rot and decay so you can craft them again? This would give you a sense of accomplishment???
Sounds like "Whac-A-Mole" requiring the same skill set.

What bubble?

Main totem lands should be fully loot able and players inside them should be attack able as well as buildings damaged and destroyed.

What I don't want is all my tribe mates land taken over by a massive tribe of griefers in which we are out numbered and have no chance against them.

We lose EVERYTHING (as you are suggesting is a good system) and we have to all move to a new location and start ALL OVER AGAIN like it was FINAL WIPE DAY.



It's just NOT happening and nothing anyone has said has pointed toward it happening.


Doesn't this game have a hard enough time KEEPING players into the game (not getting them into it, that's the easy part...keeping them into this game is hard...aka resubbing)???

[Eduard]

Ok I'll take another stab at it in the spirit of being constructive.

- Remove safe zones
- Fix /unstuck
- Introduce gates
- Gates require a key.
- Introduce siege equipment and anti-siege equipment
- Walls/gates inside totem area of influence can only be destroyed by siege equipment.
- Walls/gates should take a long time to breach.
- Walls/gates can be repaired by any member of the tribe.
- Siege equipment can only be moved around by X number of players.
- Siege equipment takes large amounts of resources to be built.
- Anti-siege equipment can destroy siege equipment.
- Resources (where it makes sense) should be depletable and rotate. Once they dry up they can be discovered again somewhere else.

And I hesitate to say let everyone build everywhere but I would really like to see a way for tribes to build outside their area of influence without requiring a totem. Perhaps a special building type? I don't know. Maybe walls built outside your tribe AoI are vulnerable to a bunch of guys with picks instead of just siege equipment?

The point is tribes should be able to have the option to try and control large areas outside their area of influence by outposts, forts, trading posts, and tiny settlements.

YES! ^this

Guys if this game goes all carebear then I have few questions:
1. Why do we have walls - if you have safe zone then walls are kinda for look - something like flowers - lets make more flowers then - DEVs delete all walls and defending structures pls (/sarcasm)
2. Why do we have armor sets? - delete them also
3. Weapons - ...
4. fun? - lets make this single player game and rename it to sim city 2010

Srsly ppl get real and stop talking about safe zones and PVE part and all that BS - Its really simple - I see this game as free game... free to do anything you like (someone will pvp , someone will build all day, someone will destroy, someone will farm, someone will trade, then politic between tribes and everything else that I didnt mention here).
If you take that freedom and make safe zones permanent then we lost that freedom - there will be NO to very low PVP... players will build less because - why building walls when you have safe zones etc ... its all connected.
Safe zones and battlegrounds/minigames and alike are ruining games... pls don't make same mistake here.

Its sandbox for love of the God ... don't make is prisonbox!

Added after 6 minutes:

And you still don't get it.

Destruction of everything for MULTIPLE PLAYERS (all the tribe members) equals those players never playing again. I am fine with siege damage to walls and all that.

You don't get it mate ... Why attacking if you can't destroy?
Why defending if you can't be destroyed?
Why war between tribes if its pointless?
Why playing game that is pointless?

If you leave game after someone destroy all that you have build then you are not for sandbox games - its simple as that.

If you want to build all day and be sure it will not be destroyed then go Sims and Sim City but be sure to turn off natural catastrophes because they will dmg your town.

[Salvadore]

This is the joke of the week lol. Crafting works almost perfectly ? I know you are a PvP player but still...have you never seen a working economy ?

MMkay sweety. Crafting is the BEST THING about this game currently, and yes, it works pretty much the best out of anything else in the game. You WILL NOT have an economy without pvp/warfare. Nobody is losing any gear to decay, use, or any other reason currently. They wont lose it even if decay was put in at a ridiculous speed. Same with assets having no destruction - people will just do the cheaper assets with easier maintenance due to fact that there is NO PURPOSE behind them besides aesthetics. Adding rare resources will still NOT create an economy due to the fact that they have no real purpose or benefit. There will be no sign of any type of economy until it (pvp/warfare) is addressed.

LOL have I ever seen a working economy??? Im usually the guy that dictates how it works on the entire server - consider me a venture capitalist to the ruthless degree.

In Xsyon you can craft items which has no use at all. Thats not how a crafting system should work. If they give us comfort, if your character dies when sleeping out in the wood during the winter, if he dies from cold without a warm armor, if I won't be able to kill a bear naked and with a knife only, when tools breaks and items decay, when there is item loss implemented then we can start to talk about the crafting system. Till then even if you had your PvP system it still would be just as pointless as crafting.

/facepalm

It really is no wonder you have over 1800 posts. Fix pvp - supplements the crafting system better than perfecting the crafting system itself. Fixing pvp makes use of EVERY thing you just described.

I cant really figure out if you just like to blindly argue in a delusional fashion or really have no idea what keeps people logging into an MMO.

[Jadzia]

PvP seems like the most direct route to item loss. No?

No. There is no item loss in PvP. There is only ownership change.

@Salvador: this has been proven wrong so many times. PvP is not needed for a good economy, if PvP was working properly now in Xsyon it wouldn't help even a tiny bit. Say you can kill someone and loot....oo happy,now you have the 65th useless armor ! How nice. Drop into one of the 120 bins at home and forget it.
Even if you could take over other tribes' area now...so what ? You fight them, take over the city. Yay, now you have 20 more absolutely useless tents !! Hurray. And you have one more land which has the exact same resources as your own one. You have 1 more sandcastle which is useless as well. If you really don't see how we need a working economy first then its really hopeless to explain it to you.

PvP doesn't create a good economy. Economy is needed first so that there is a reason to fight for things. And for the economy we need purpose for items....stats and quality for armors and weapons, comfort and decay to make use of buildings, rare resources, rare recipes, etc.

[Eduard]

No. There is no item loss in PvP. There is only ownership change.

@Salvador: this has been proven wrong so many times. PvP is not needed for a good economy, if PvP was working properly now in Xsyon it wouldn't help even a tiny bit. Say you can kill someone and loot....oo happy,now you have the 65th useless armor ! How nice. Drop into one of the 120 bins at home and forget it.
Even if you could take over other tribes' area now...so what ? You fight them, take over the city. Yay, now you have 20 more absolutely useless tents !! Hurray. And you have one more land which has the exact same resources as your own one. You have 1 more sandcastle which is useless as well. If you really don't see how we need a working economy first then its really hopeless to explain it to you.

PvP doesn't create a good economy. Economy is needed first so that there is a reason to fight for things. And for the economy we need purpose for items....stats and quality for armors and weapons, comfort and decay to make use of buildings, rare resources, rare recipes, etc.

Imo both is needed - decay and PVP (decay of items need to be highly increased in PVP which is kinda logical) - and when we have both ... there is economy born from ashes of decay and conflict. (same as in RL unfortunately)

[Salvadore]

No. There is no item loss in PvP. There is only ownership change.

@Salvador: this has been proven wrong so many times. PvP is not needed for a good economy, if PvP was working properly now in Xsyon it wouldn't help even a tiny bit. Say you can kill someone and loot....oo happy,now you have the 65th useless armor ! How nice. Drop into one of the 120 bins at home and forget it.
Even if you could take over other tribes' area now...so what ? You fight them, take over the city. Yay, now you have 20 more absolutely useless tents !! Hurray. And you have one more land which has the exact same resources as your own one. You have 1 more sandcastle which is useless as well. If you really don't see how we need a working economy first then its really hopeless to explain it to you.

PvP doesn't create a good economy. Economy is needed first so that there is a reason to fight for things. And for the economy we need purpose for items....stats and quality for armors and weapons, comfort and decay to make use of buildings, rare resources, rare recipes, etc.

Just add "that I destroy" after every item you mentioned.

100% item loss in pvp due to my action. Even if i still decided to hoard it, the OTHER PERSON still has to re-aquire it. Same with another's tribal area. For all you know, ive exhausted all needed resources at mine, and am going to take yours. After I do, I will have mine, but not until I TAKE IT. You, then, have to aquire it again.

Thats an economy - everyone is always in progression to get something else due to risk/loss (the risk/loss is what you still fail to grasp).

Currently, there is no economy due to the fact that EVERYONE has ANYTHING they desire, safely, protected, without fear. No risk, no need to trade, no need to interact with anyone besides their fellow guildies who are gophering whatever resource atm.

It really sounds like you fear a pvp system, thus why you are constantly trying to put it last in every endeavor you post about.

[Jadzia]

Just add "that I destroy" after every item you mentioned.

100% item loss in pvp due to my action. Even if i still decided to hoard it, the OTHER PERSON still has to re-aquire it. Same with another's tribal area. For all you know, ive exhausted all needed resources at mine, and am going to take yours. After I do, I will have mine, but not until I TAKE IT. You, then, have to aquire it again.

Thats an economy - everyone is always in progression to get something else due to risk/loss (the risk/loss is what you still fail to grasp).

Currently, there is no economy due to the fact that EVERYONE has ANYTHING they desire, safely, protected, without fear. No risk, no need to trade, no need to interact with anyone besides their fellow guildies who are gophering whatever resource atm.

It really sounds like you fear a pvp system, thus why you are constantly trying to put it last in every endeavor you post about.

I wonder if you really don't understand it, or you just like to argue. Economy is not driven by risk/loss...its driven by demand. And there is no demand for anything in the game now. NOTHING. Since nothing has any purpose. You can gather thousands of armors by PvP...but why ? To sit, stare at them and be proud ? Because they have no other use right now.

The problem with the economy is not that people have secured resources. The problem is that there are no rare resources. I have a homestead which has no junkpile, no water, no wood. I live beside a huge junkpile though. I gather without safety but still that doesn't boost the economy, does it ? We have so many junkpiles, so many resources, why would anyone fight over a land if there is a better one 5 minutes away ? Thats why there is no tradeing. I can craft everything by myself, I can gather everything by myself, why would I trade ?
Why would I fear the PvP system ? There is nothing to lose. NOTHING. And nothing to gain either. Whatever you loot from me I have dozen of it at home, and probably you have dozens of it at home too. PvP is totally pointless if items have no use. Owning an item is pointless if that item is pointless itself. We need an economy first to give purpose for crafting and PvP. Till then none of them has any use.