Some critics

[MrDDT]

Thanks for both the comments and criticism, I agree I could withhold on killing so many people, and asking "Hey you afk" or "Are you new" before I kill someone. Im sure I dont have to dry loot every player I see.

My point is that the system show punish people that play like that. Its not good for the game. I read a study that said it takes 50 good things to happen to you to make up for 1 bad thing for your psych to return to balance.

Problem is that my play style might be a bit over the top, but with the right limiting factors, it can be managed in such a way its fun for all.

Things like, maybe each time I kill a player that I attack first, I will be punished with a longer revive time on death, or stat loss.

Or maybe every item I loot, I get punished in slower skill gains for 10mins.

This can apply in many ways. My point is discourage this behavior with systems. Also encourage good ones in others. Like reward people for killing evils. Maybe you get faster skill gains for killing the Evil.

Added after 11 minutes:

I think you need to take this the step further.

DDT has the tools (as we all do) to deny resources to other players.. what he likely doesn't understand is that he is denying someone the enjoyment of the game.

We too have these tools. what DDT is doing is fair and balanced because we too have the tools to deny him enjoyment of the game. It's completely within the rules for us as a community to use these same tools to deny him enjoyment of the game in an attempt to remove him from the community.. ruining another persons fun and pushing them out of the game to eliminate competition is fair game right now.. DDT does it. you could to.

Adding to comment on this.

Yes, but really you dont want to support this type of play, as I stated above, you want to encourage people to play in a good fashion because it does make people overall happy. Bad things are going to happen, but balance it out with more good.
Reward people for playing good, punish harder for playing bad. Playing bad comes with rewards innate to being evil.

[findangle]

hehe again being smart and uncovering my hidden motives.

i was hoping to subtly troll bait you and polarize a handfull of players into turning it back against you and maybe the dev's would catch some attention and do something about it.

Alternatively i was hoping maybe you would say "yeah it's hurting people.. maybe i lay off some". but i didn't have much hope there cause your not breaking the rules or doing anything wrong. in reality your probably doing more to bring attention to the system and get it fixed. my attempt at getting players to support the playstyle was really an attempt to highlight it's destructive effect on a playerbase.

Your playstyle may be over the top but it's far from uncommon in many mmo's today. your right. it should be limited to some extent by game mechanics. it's not going away and needs to be tempered.

Thanks for both the comments and criticism, I agree I could withhold on killing so many people, and asking "Hey you afk" or "Are you new" before I kill someone. Im sure I dont have to dry loot every player I see.

My point is that the system show punish people that play like that. Its not good for the game. I read a study that said it takes 50 good things to happen to you to make up for 1 bad thing for your psych to return to balance.

Problem is that my play style might be a bit over the top, but with the right limiting factors, it can be managed in such a way its fun for all.

Things like, maybe each time I kill a player that I attack first, I will be punished with a longer revive time on death, or stat loss.

Or maybe every item I loot, I get punished in slower skill gains for 10mins.

This can apply in many ways. My point is discourage this behavior with systems. Also encourage good ones in others. Like reward people for killing evils. Maybe you get faster skill gains for killing the Evil.



Adding to comment on this.

Yes, but really you dont want to support this type of play, as I stated above, you want to encourage people to play in a good fashion because it does make people overall happy. Bad things are going to happen, but balance it out with more good.
Reward people for playing good, punish harder for playing bad. Playing bad comes with rewards innate to being evil.

[Book]

All that said DDT very obviously comes from the school of "play to crush" which is a VERY common playstyle in darkfall (i'm guessing you come from there?) and it's unfortunate because the playerbase in that game right now is going through a real "come to jesus" moment where they are starting to understand that their playstyle has driven away most of the other playstyles and has created a game they no longer want to play.

I think the notion that certain behaviors will simply drive people out of the game, and those who engage in that behavior will wind up left to play with a bunch of other people just like them because everyone else left... is something that has to be learned first-hand.
My guess is that the Darkfall folks are a bit younger, and perhaps simply haven't gone through it before. It's unfortunate if that winds up hurting the game they learn with, but that's just how it is.
It's nothing new. It's nothing original, nothing unique.

Personally, when I see that storm start to take shape, I pack my bags and head out. Life gets shorter every day. Plenty of choices out there. Why deal with it?

DDT has the tools (as we all do) to deny resources to other players.. what he likely doesn't understand is that he is denying someone the enjoyment of the game.

We too have these tools. what DDT is doing is fair and balanced because we too have the tools to deny him enjoyment of the game. It's completely within the rules for us as a community to use these same tools to deny him enjoyment of the game in an attempt to remove him from the community.. ruining another persons fun and pushing them out of the game to eliminate competition is fair game right now.. DDT does it. you could to.

Yes, I understand what comes around can just as easily go around. However, it would require me to play in a way I don't find enjoyable. Someone can make a mess of things in the mosh pit, and I could jump in and do the same to them... but I don't much enjoy mosh pits... so I'd rather just go to another concert where I don't have to deal with that.

Edit:
At the end of the day, I think a number of people like the idea of losing another "carebear." That's cool. I sincerely hope there are enough of those folks to make this a very profitable venture, and to provide them with a lot of the entertainment they enjoy. That's what it's all about, and sometimes it's best just to get out of the way for better or worse.

[Aiden]

Yeah, this is one of those never-ending, but always interesting discussions. There are so many variables to consider.

1. Allowing absolute freedom to destroy and/or grief the playerbase will result in a good portion of the population leaving.
2. Punishing players who use the mechanics as they are implemented to destroy or grief will result in a good portion of the population leaving.
3. Having systems in place that allow, with little consequence, said destruction or griefing will result in people using them for that purpose.

For example, I was just logged off for approximately 1.5-2 hours (under Tornado Warning). During that time a SINGLE PLAYER could have easily cut and destroyed every tree in my area and probably paved over a good portion of my closest junkpiles.

Both of those actions are valid ways of limiting resources that the game allows...however...it is NOT a positive action at all when considering the overall welfare of the game. If I'm on the fence about the game...I'm sure as hell done and moving on (as Book stated above). If I'm new...I've just realized that there's absolutely nothing I can do to prevent a player from destroying my in-game fun, especially when I'm not online.

All new players need to start in a safe-zone and to be tagged in some way as new...I've witnessed many new players being mowed down before they even know which way is up.

Logging needs to be redesigned to make it more labor intensive, but more rewarding for the same amount of work. If a jackwagon has to spend 10 minutes mowing down a tree near me (for the same number of logs and same skill gain as logging 10 trees now), then it'll still happen, but the level of destruction won't be so damn ridiculous.

Personally, I'd like to see junkpiles be exempt from dropping totems on, and at the same time, exempt from road-paving. But then I'd also like to see them non-renewable.

As long as the mechanics are there (and even when they're built specifically to try and limit it), someone is going to abuse them...

[Mactavendish]

I will readily admit that I have been killed by MrDDT.

whereas I will never play the game like he does, He presents a challenge to those that wish to play in other ways. The BEST then anyone can do .. is rise to the challenge.

I mean really, who care that he does what he does. It only harms YOU if you let it. Let me explain.

Sure he can kill you or destroy a tent or two. He can loot your "stuff". Big deal... all those things are very easy to replace. But what if you rose to the challenge he presents?

Say you deal with his drive by tactics, all the while building impenetrable fortifications that he simply cannot get past. Honestly how long do you think he will butt his head against the wall?

Next they put in siege abilities. A tribe will trump a lone player any day of the week... IF you actively maintain your defenses. I band of raiders come through? Just make it that much more difficult to penetrate you defenses and again... You can fart in their general direction

My only irritation from a player like ddt is not being ready before he runs past. Ultimately we should all be able to stand on a wall looking down at him and spit and go about our business, and just laugh at his attempts.

[findangle]

yeah we're dancing around the same issue over and over again in all these threads

either you have to make it fun to get crushed by another player even when they didn't go out looking for a fight or you have to dissuade players from crushing other players.

Added after 9 minutes:

I will readily admit that I have been killed by MrDDT.

whereas I will never play the game like he does, He presents a challenge to those that wish to play in other ways. The BEST then anyone can do .. is rise to the challenge.

I mean really, who care that he does what he does. It only harms YOU if you let it. Let me explain.

Sure he can kill you or destroy a tent or two. He can loot your "stuff". Big deal... all those things are very easy to replace. But what if you rose to the challenge he presents?

Say you deal with his drive by tactics, all the while building impenetrable fortifications that he simply cannot get past. Honestly how long do you think he will butt his head against the wall?

Next they put in siege abilities. A tribe will trump a lone player any day of the week... IF you actively maintain your defenses. I band of raiders come through? Just make it that much more difficult to penetrate you defenses and again... You can fart in their general direction

My only irritation from a player like ddt is not being ready before he runs past. Ultimately we should all be able to stand on a wall looking down at him and spit and go about our business, and just laugh at his attempts.

yeah you make good points there.. the whine right now is that someone is coming through and blowing up the resources and now they can't build a wall (nevermind that they're not considering other materials that can build walls.)

alot of this is probably going to go away once more of the game systems are "unlocked".. i bet a lot of this has to do with people getting bored with the scope of the game and heading out to mess with people and other people not busy enough to ignore that someone's pee'ing in their backyard.

[Dubanka]

yeah we're dancing around the same issue over and over again in all these threads

either you have to make it fun to get crushed by another player even when they didn't go out looking for a fight or you have to dissuade players from crushing other players.

you should have stopped before the or...or else you need to come up with a new game design (as it pertains to xsyon).
if you want an 'open' world with that real/tangible feeling of nervousness when you venture out into the wilds then you have to have a very real threat of violence.
the trick is the risk/reward of the equation.

players need the ability to mitigate their chance of getting jumped.
players need to have the ability always been on an equal footing (insert health per level add discussion here) with their attacker
players need the ability to hold other players accountable for their actions.

give the players the tools to play the game...then let them play.

and mr ddt sir, your stamina is pretty astounding...after having this discussion multiple times alread on this forums, i'm pretty much done with it you've been at it a year longer and still going.
keep up the good fight.

[MrDDT]

I think Im about to give it up.
Im going to just let the game play out, and will stop giving any ideas. I hope for the best, expect the worst as they say.

Maybe it wont be as bad as I expect.
/shrugs.

Keep up the good work Devs.

[mrcalhou]

"Don't hate the player; hate the game."

Instead of bitching and moaning about MrDDT's actions, you should be applauding him for bringing to light a very significant problem with the game.

[ColonelTEE3]

I think Im about to give it up.
Im going to just let the game play out, and will stop giving any ideas. I hope for the best, expect the worst as they say.

Maybe it wont be as bad as I expect.
/shrugs.

Keep up the good work Devs.

All evil needs to succeed is for good men to do nothing. Don't stop discussing, mrddt, or this game will see the NGE all over again