What is xsyon?

[Sirius]

Jadzia, since you are playing the part of the child with its fingers stuck in its ears, demanding I post with specific reference to the features list and then ignoring the results that show you to be wrong, I'll repeat it all for you and waste my time adding notes for people who don't understand English so well, or don't reach logical conclusions so well.

*The fact that stealth gives a camouflage effect which makes it harder for other players to see immediately demonstrates that it is intended to be used for PVP purposes.
[If stealth weren't intended to be used for PVP purposes, it wouldn't make players hard for other players to see.]

*The existence of safe zones also shows that PVP is intended outside those safe zones.
[This is so obvious no further explanation is needed.]

*Protected player housing and storage imply something to be protected from (and no, I'm not thinking of bears rummaging through baskets and stealing fish).
[Again, too obvious for further explanation.]

Resources can be claimed by tribes. [Obviously PVP and tribal warfare]
Resources can be controlled and destroyed to reduce supply. [Obviously PVP and tribal warfare]
Character actions are tracked for Good and Evil and hidden stats such as Luck. [It's extremely obvious that the primary "evil" action is supposed to be murdering other players]

Weapon types versus armor types. [animals don't use weapons and armor; thus weapons and armor only go up against weapons and armor IN PVP]

Combat permissions in tribe zones based on tribal settings. [Obviously PVP and tribal warfare.. your suggestion that this isn't supposed to mean PVP since everyone could theoretically turn PVP "off" is one of the most idiotic things I've ever heard. You can turn anti-aliasing off too, but that doesn't mean it isn't in the game.]

Combat will be revised during the Prelude and improved to match combat oriented games. [Notice the words MATCH COMBAT-ORIENTED GAMES. It's pretty far-fetched to suggest that this DOES NOT include PVP.]

Player owned protected housing/storage. [again, this implies something to be protected FROM]

Jadzia, I'm starting to suspect the reason your posts make so little sense is that you are speaking in a foreign language that you don't properly understand. For example, you quoted the interview comments by Jordi:

Yes, the goal is to create a virtual world that acts much as the NPC world and towns of a themepark MMORPG. Combat should be part of this world, but not the sole focus. We will soon introduce our quest system, which, along with the tribe mechanics, are meant to keep players entertained who are not interested in PvP combat.

Recently there seems to be a bit of a trend toward independently produced open-world games with sandbox elements and a heavy focus on PVP. What sets your game apart from titles like Darkfall or Mortal Online? Do you see PvP conflict as the driving force behind Xsyon?

What sets Xsyon apart is a focus on building and creating a new world and not relying on PvP as the driving force.

In Xsyon, tribe zones are safe zones. While wilderness areas will be mostly anything goes, encumbrance limits will prevent extensive looting and mechanisms are in place to prevent camping spawn locations. The goal is to have open PvP in general but not cater to griefer types.

And you conclude that this is what it says!

And they would find the tribal warfare is not supposed to be in game during Prelude.

It doesn't even come close to saying that. It says that PVP is "not the sole focus", it says they want to entertain those players "who are not interested in PVP", it says PVP is "not the driving force"; it says "the goal is to have open PvP in general but not cater to griefer types".

NONE OF THAT SAYS OR EVEN IMPLIES THERE WILL BE NO TRIBAL WARFARE IN PRELUDE. It merely says that there won't be ONLY PVP, and that there will be plenty for non-PVPers to do. Nor does it say there isn't supposed to be PVP. It says there will be open PVP in general.

It's not just that this "research" is beyond what a customer is ordinarily expected to do regarding an entertainment product purchase -- on top of that, the interviews, forum posts, and features page all indicate that PVP, including tribal conflict, is a basic feature.

[jokhul]

A proper study of the Features list reveals the following:

• There are 17 feature "sections", of which ONE deals with Combat (and 1 for Armour)
• There are 122 bullet-points listing features, of which 9 deal directly with Combat-related features
• The word "Combat" appears 8 times.
• The word "Craft" or "Crafting" appears 27 times !
• The word "Kill" does not appear, but the word "Skill" or "Skills" appears 33 times !
• "Full Loot" is not mentioned ANYWHERE
• There is no mention of the words "War", "FFA", "PVP", "Conquer", "Defeat" or "Siege"

So Xsyon is combat-centric FFA-PVP game, is it ?

The Feature Page sure makes a good job of hiding that, lol

My reading and comprehension skills are obviously sorely lacking, because many other posters in this thread can clearly find the justification for their interpretation of Xsyon as a brutal game of full-loot warfare...

[Book]

This.

The problem is, as you point out, Jordi has no idea how the mechanics will work. Months ago he turned to a small group of vocal forum posters who were adamant about not being griefed (waaaah) and didn't want pvp and territory control to be Xsyon's main focus. They stated everyone would be happy playing bob-the-builder online, crafting in the peaceful confines of their safe tribal zones. They stated Xsyon's community didn't want another Darkfall, or another Mortal Online.

Now that the game's been released and it's a massive pile of garbage, people are beginning to see it for what it really is — a shallow sandbox with no purpose, no direction and no functionality.

He's flip-flopped back and forth on the issue for months, seeming to provide both the 'pvp' and 'pve' crowd with a few carrots here and there. With the game released in the state it's in I think it's time the community received some concrete information from the devs about a final 'vision' for the product.

The "small group of posters not wanting to be griefed" is only small because most of those folks don't post. They don't choose to complain incessantly, most just leave and go to another game where they don't have to deal with infantile little bullies plopped in front of a computer because Mom and Dad wanted some time off. I'm sure you have enough experience playing MMORPG's to comprehend this basic fact and to have noticed that trend. I presume you're a "full-blown English speaker," and thus have superior analytical skills enabling you to wrap your head around it.

If you're looking for a "final" vision, again, a small amount of experience would tell you that the very nature of MMORPG development is dynamic.

@Sirius: your ethnocentrism is evolutionarily archaic. We live in an increasingly global society. If you can't handle that, the internet is probably not for you.

[Jadzia]

You know, Sirius, that you are ignoring the answers I already gave you. But I think I can see where is the problem...you have always played PvP games, so when you see something you interpret it in a PvP way. I played a lot of games without PvP so my thinking is not limited to that.

Resources can be claimed by tribes. [Obviously PVP and tribal warfare] Oh no, not at all, in Atitd you can claim resources and there is no combat.
Resources can be controlled and destroyed to reduce supply. [Obviously PVP and tribal warfare] Again, same in Atitd, and it doesn't mean tribal warfare there.

Character actions are tracked for Good and Evil and hidden stats such as Luck. [It's extremely obvious that the primary "evil" action is supposed to be murdering other players] I give you this one. The best explanation for this point is PvP.

Weapon types versus armor types. [animals don't use weapons and armor; thus weapons and armor only go up against weapons and armor IN PVP] There are a lot of games where animals have armors. Zombies can use weapons as well.

Combat permissions in tribe zones based on tribal settings. [Obviously PVP and tribal warfare.. your suggestion that this isn't supposed to mean PVP since everyone could theoretically turn PVP "off" is one of the most idiotic things I've ever heard. You can turn anti-aliasing off too, but that doesn't mean it isn't in the game.] This may mean duelling too. It can mean PvP, but not tribal warfare.

Combat will be revised during the Prelude and improved to match combat oriented games. [Notice the words MATCH COMBAT-ORIENTED GAMES. It's pretty far-fetched to suggest that this DOES NOT include PVP.] I'm not saying that it can't include PvP. But clearly doesn't prove it.

Player owned protected housing/storage. [again, this implies something to be protected FROM] This actually says that there will be no siege system, since houses can't be destroyed.And in some games you have to protect your stuffs from NPCs.

In my post to Illmaculate I wrote Jordi's interview as one of the sources, people would know that tribal warfare won't be in during Prelude from other places, since it was stated like thousand times.

No interview, post or whatever from the developers ever said that tribal warfare will be in game during Prelude. They always said that it will be implemented after Prelude.
Jordi's interview doesn't mention tribal warfare at all.

[Sirius]

Holy crap. Yeah, your reading and comprehension skills are obviously sorely lacking.

[Sirius]

LOL school's out, kids. I'm done trying to educate the illiterate.

Word of advice: don't ever rely on your English ability if anything important, such as money, is involved. Make sure the convo is in a language you demonstrably understand.

[jokhul]

Holy crap. Yeah, your reading and comprehension skills are obviously sorely lacking.

You, on the other hand, see what you want to see, not what is on the page.

99% of your "proof" is deductive, based on what you WANT the text to mean. You quote from the feature list, and then you "explain" what the text "actually means", lol

[Jadzia]

That's my point. He turned to them for advice and then did a 180-degree-spin on the game's core mechanics midway through the pre-order alpha test. Now people are leaving a result of the game these monsters have created.

As for my comment about a final vision, I'm not talking about specifics — just a general outline regarding what people can expect in terms of gameplay styles and options, including pvp and tribal conflict mechanics.

Jordi already said it, Illmaculate.
Sirius: When out of arguments, its time to insult ?

[Sirius]

Actually was responding to jokhul, but the shoe also fits Jad just fine. I'm not sure why I even respond to such idiotic comments. And hey, look! The next post down has Book accusing me of "ethnocentrism", thus clearly demonstrating he doesn't even know what that word means, much less how to use it correctly. It sure had a lot of syllables and SOUNDED intelligent, though!

Sirius: When out of arguments, its time to insult ?

When someone insists that 2 + 2 = 5, they're not "arguing" and you'd be wasting your time to continue "arguing" with them. As ILL so poignantly puts it: "words have meanings". Some basic grasp of logic is also a prerequisite to putting up a legitimate argument. For example, you'd have to realize that even a single item on the features page implying PVP is enough to utterly demolish your position that Xsyon is not supposed to have PVP.

You simply don't get it, either at the language level or the logic level. Thus this is a waste of my time.

[Dubanka]

jadzia consistently ignores Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is most likely the correct one

instead creating hypothesis based on what would be possible, but unlikely.