Why should HP be based of levels gained?

[fatboy21007]

then i think the hunting skill should effect hps. Look ddt in every damn mmo made to date(98% ofem) they all use 1 stat to raise hps, and as ya leveled up you got an option to stick points into that stat. Their was no skill effecting hpings in any other game cept select few. if were gonna fix hps, then it needs done rite, their shouldnt still be a gap their when its done, and if their is it will be a small one. No matter wat player should be able to beat a play 1 vs 1 unless that player just sucks in pvp. I want a balance here, i DO NOT want to see this where ya grind up a skill poof high hps. You didnt earn them. so ill choose hunting that would be the logical skill to use as ya use it to hunt animals, they should me the skill the same effect when ya hunt players. and fortitude should still effect hps, its int he guides n everything else, yet i dont think it even is effecting hps

[Dubanka]

the bigger issue with hps tying to skill gains, is will the gmae recognize 'shadow maxed' skills once/whenever skill decay is put in at a reasonably high level.

ie. i max running. then i let running decay. then i max running again. will the game reduce my hps as the skill decays? if it doesnt, will it recognize the shadowmax or will it add more hps as a player reskills it?

that is the main problem with tying hps to things other than stat(s) or gear...too many variables. fort adds hps at a factor of 2. str at 1.5, agility at 1.2, etc etc. per chance adding stats to the more cerebral elements affects hps negatively...so you can't be really smart and have huge hps. seems like it would be simpler and more intuitive than the current method.

[xmechna]

shadow maxed ? gona have to clue me in on that term

[Book]

Trouble is if you put skill decay at a high level, the game becomes a major chore for the more casual players who will wind up constantly trying to regain what they've lost every time they log in. Not really such a fun prospect. Hopefully that will be accounted for in the initial implementation.

And yes, I believe the plan is: while hps don't themselves decay directly, they decay indirectly through their connection to skills, which will decay... as per Jadzia's post of Jordi's remarks.

[MrDDT]

then i think the hunting skill should effect hps. Look ddt in every damn mmo made to date(98% ofem) they all use 1 stat to raise hps, and as ya leveled up you got an option to stick points into that stat. Their was no skill effecting hpings in any other game cept select few. if were gonna fix hps, then it needs done rite, their shouldnt still be a gap their when its done, and if their is it will be a small one. No matter wat player should be able to beat a play 1 vs 1 unless that player just sucks in pvp. I want a balance here, i DO NOT want to see this where ya grind up a skill poof high hps. You didnt earn them. so ill choose hunting that would be the logical skill to use as ya use it to hunt animals, they should me the skill the same effect when ya hunt players. and fortitude should still effect hps, its int he guides n everything else, yet i dont think it even is effecting hps

Do you understand that tying HP to 1 stat is going to make it worse than it is now? Stats take 100x longer to level up than skills. Skill cap out.
Stats do not have a cap (at least none Ive seen).

So you will have people that play hours and hours like myself. Way more HP than others, who never will catch up. New players will be even more screwed because they can never catch up.

Fort does effect HP. Its 1/10xfort = Bonus to HP. IE 1 to 9 points of HP.
Each level gives around 1.5 HP. So 6 levels = 90 fort.

I dont see why hunting should be the only other skill heck its a gathering skill. Might as well just make logging effect HP also. Hunting isnt even using the fort stat.

@ Dub,
Yes I see this as a major problem also. So once skill decay is put in, both the gap of HP and the decay + exp training for HP will be both worse for the gap and boring as heck.
I would rather see a stat pool, where its a soft cap. So people have to choose. With that you would need to balance stats a lot better.

@Book,
Skill decay has been planned from the start, as was stat decay. If they dont make it so it decays offline I see no reason why casuals would need to work harder. They would just need to focus. I see no problems in this. Same time is spent as anyone else also current way is worse for casuals as they will have to get all the skills up. (At least combat casuals).

[fatboy21007]

thats the point with the stat, it does take a very long time to raise it, thus when ya make your character, ya choose wisely if u plan to pvp, craft or do both. Thus makes character builds more useful :-P Also hunting should work as u can track animals, and should allow ya to track players, then tying hps to it would work. And with skill decay, that gap is still gonna be their, with ur maxed out skills and others like ya, no way any1 will be able to catch up to ya, i mean if ya keep steady with skills ya might finally after a year come down to a level where it might take 5 to down ya ^^, ahh well we all can keep chatin bout this, but nothing will happen rite now, all we can do is wait and see what the devs do with it.

[Mactavendish]

I don't mean to argue with you Book, but Jordi said that HP will decay along with skills, not stats.

What this tells me is that he is sticking with his original plan and having skill pools, and that HP will decay with skill decay.

The idea always was to limit how many skills a player could keep at max. So let's say we are talking about the combat group. 1 or 2 skills you could keep high, but the others would be hard to keep over 50 or so. You can be really good in axes and unarmed but not that good in the others.


to ddt:

I am fine with it working like this. And where it will give an advantage to the vets, it is not an advantage that cannot be matched by any other player.

This will not hurt the more casuals, as they will just focus on 1 or maybe 2 skills and keep them maxed. Now skill of the player will have more meaning.

It is true for any game. Very few players find it fun to be unevenly matched. I am not talking about a slight uneven match up that could be challenging... I am talking Just started playing chess against an accomplished tournament winner.

It is not in the best interest of the game to keep things this way, and Jordi knows this. He wants players to join in here and have fun, not be frustrated at every turn.And remember, he wants all different types of players here, not just players like you. ( sorry to bust your bubble.)

Atm if you are not in love with building and crafting this game will get boring very quickly. This is not me saying anything that's not known or being negative. Many of my tribe mates have joined the game, all enthused, and then quietly disappeared to go play something more exciting. The current player base is generally older and more willing to put up with slow growth.

IF, they advertise without making some fundamental changes to bring excitement and balance, you know full well what will happen. A flood of new players will join, litter tha world with totems all over, become disappointed and then leave and the world will be worse off than now.

Thus, Jordi will make changes that he feels will best help the game.. not help you or I specifically.

[xmechna]

from what i gather skills are supposed to decay to the point of a player having 2 crafting skills 2 fighting skills 2 gathering skills or some variant of that and the hp bar will be balanced around that. players who have all skills leveled to 100 will have to chose later on what skills they will keep and the other skills will decay probably rather quickly leveling skill points will last only so long and soon the days of players having god mode aka a inflated life bar due to the current state of game will go away. =)

we wont have 1 person winning everything due to balance issues personally i have not attended events but iv seen 1 person announced the winner of the events enuff to know there is a problem


hey oak!!! get in vent we gota talk for a min

[MrDDT]

I can see its pointless to debate this anymore with Mac or Fatboy, as they are not even sticking to what they want.

Tying HP to a stat will make the gap worse not better. But whatever. I doubt anything said here will matter much anyways as it will likely not be anything like anything said here.

Good luck with whatever, as I dont think you will be happy with stats effecting HP. Because you will see people like me never ending gaining stats. Whereas skill grind stops after so long (like at the point I'm at now, the gap is closing because I cant get any more levels).

Final thought on the topic.

My idea is to make the gap smaller using skills as the factor. But link HP to many skills stack ranked instead of 1, or every skill in the game. IE tailoring should yield no HP, while logging should yield more than over the normal of say like forestry.

Doing this, people can choose their roles and which skills they want. Stats needs a LOT of work many are about worthless. While stats like DEX have tons of reasons to have it maxed, and its easy to go up.

[Mactavendish]

You do realize that I am NOT saying that hp should be tied to stats... right?

Fatboy is saying that and I don't agree with him. The last thing Jordi said was that HP decay will be tied to skill decay.

I have not changed from what I originally posted. Maybe you should separate what FB says and what I say.. they are not the same.

Whatever the current ( secret ) max for HP is, it is based off any skill you level. To me and at least a few others here they agree this is a bad method.

We all agree that the gap between vets and new players should be closed, some even saying that as far as HP it should be the same for vets and new players.

So... since HP decay will be added with skill decay, after awhile we will see the gap start to close, and next, when they advertise and totems decay then this game will start to move a bit more. Hardcore players will have folks to play with and others will be able to compete a bit better and perhaps stay in game longer.

Bottom line is, folks can rant and reason all they want but in the end it is what the Development teams DOES that means something.