Some critics

[MrDDT]

My point though is right now there is no reason to cut down and destory trees.(I know you said before you wernt destroying them, I am not sure if you started to destroy them)

Maybe to start tribe wars early?
I could see it as a way for trade wars if someone was selling something wood and they had a competitor in a certain area, they might want to go cut all those trees.
Maybe so others cant get master logging as easy, good for high skilled loggers if they are lookign for business or just dont want others to have good stuff.

The point to do it should not be just to upset people hehe. People might get upset but if thats the reason for doing something then thats probably what most people dont like.

Also this will not matter as much when people can regrow trees.

When tribe wars start I can see it haveing a big impact. Regrowing trees should take awhile. Long enough so a tribe could destroy all the treeas around another tribe that it wanted to atatck. To make them have a hard time to get wood for defenses or weapons or whatever.

People can make up any reason they want to cut down a tree. That's not really the point. I see no problems with people cutting down trees, I see a problem with the system allowing them to clear cut a full zone a day.

You say this also wont be a "problem" once people can regrow trees. Well according to yourself, you believe they should take "awhile" Im going to assume here that means much much longer than the time it takes to cut them.
So if I were inclined I could just go cut all your trees. Now granted you could grow a few trees in your tribe area. But Im pretty sure a few trees that take "awhile" to grow will not support what you are looking to do with your woodcutting needs, and with the new decay system (great job devs), its going to require even more wood.

The problem comes with how fast these trees can be cut, and how much effort it takes to remove them vs how much effort/time it takes to get more.

Ive posted my tree opinion many times on these forums on how I believe they should change the system. I think its a good system, and Ive set to see anyone see a flaw in it.

[MrDDT]

My point though is right now there is no reason to cut down and destory trees.(I know you said before you wernt destroying them, I am not sure if you started to destroy them)

Maybe to start tribe wars early?
I could see it as a way for trade wars if someone was selling something wood and they had a competitor in a certain area, they might want to go cut all those trees.
Maybe so others cant get master logging as easy, good for high skilled loggers if they are lookign for business or just dont want others to have good stuff.

The point to do it should not be just to upset people hehe. People might get upset but if thats the reason for doing something then thats probably what most people dont like.

Also this will not matter as much when people can regrow trees.

When tribe wars start I can see it haveing a big impact. Regrowing trees should take awhile. Long enough so a tribe could destroy all the treeas around another tribe that it wanted to atatck. To make them have a hard time to get wood for defenses or weapons or whatever.

People can make up any reason they want to cut down a tree. That's not really the point. I see no problems with people cutting down trees, I see a problem with the system allowing them to clear cut a full zone a day.

You say this also wont be a "problem" once people can regrow trees. Well according to yourself, you believe they should take "awhile" Im going to assume here that means much much longer than the time it takes to cut them.
So if I were inclined I could just go cut all your trees. Now granted you could grow a few trees in your tribe area. But Im pretty sure a few trees that take "awhile" to grow will not support what you are looking to do with your woodcutting needs, and with the new decay system (great job devs), its going to require even more wood.

The problem comes with how fast these trees can be cut, and how much effort it takes to remove them vs how much effort/time it takes to get more.

Ive posted my tree opinion many times on these forums on how I believe they should change the system. I think its a good system, and Ive set to see anyone see a flaw in it.

[goodayve]

WTF you see a problem with it but you do it just to try to show there is a problem then?

Is that what it is all about just to cut trees to try to show there is a problem?

[Book]

The point to do it should not be just to upset people hehe. People might get upset but if thats the reason for doing something then thats probably what most people dont like.

Yup, I think "griefing" is a bit more nuanced than a pure numbers game. A lot of it is about intention. As I mentioned earlier, I've definitely seen players whose only intention was to give another player grief. Literally.

There was no game related reason at all, it was just trying to get at the human behind the toon. I don't think the game was designed to specifically give the real paying customer grief. If it was, then Azhul is right and I certainly wouldn't belong here at all. It's not my style.

I don't believe that to be the case though If a dev wants to correct me on that, even privately, I'd most likely appreciate it.

[MrDDT]

WTF you see a problem with it but you do it just to try to show there is a problem then?

Is that what it is all about just to cut trees to try to show there is a problem?

You dont fault the player for doing what he has to do to train up skills and remove resources from the economy. That's what the game is about.

You fault the system for allowing it. I'm not talking about a guide stepping in and telling a player to stop, I'm talking about a system which allows you to clear a zone in 1 day of playing, or where you can destroy a chief tent in 5 seconds when it takes players hours to make them.

Fix the system.
Trees should take much more time to chop down, then this "griefing" wouldnt even been seen as griefing because they could only cut about 50 trees a day, and that's not a lot, compared to now.
Like the chief tent, it takes like 5 hours of work, it should take like 1 or 1.5 hours to take out. Not something done in 5 seconds with a click of the button.

Resources are meant to be contested over, controlled and used as tools for politics and economy. There is nothing wrong with removing an enemies resource base. Its common tactics. The problem is how easy it can be done.

[MrDDT]

WTF you see a problem with it but you do it just to try to show there is a problem then?

Is that what it is all about just to cut trees to try to show there is a problem?

You dont fault the player for doing what he has to do to train up skills and remove resources from the economy. That's what the game is about.

You fault the system for allowing it. I'm not talking about a guide stepping in and telling a player to stop, I'm talking about a system which allows you to clear a zone in 1 day of playing, or where you can destroy a chief tent in 5 seconds when it takes players hours to make them.

Fix the system.
Trees should take much more time to chop down, then this "griefing" wouldnt even been seen as griefing because they could only cut about 50 trees a day, and that's not a lot, compared to now.
Like the chief tent, it takes like 5 hours of work, it should take like 1 or 1.5 hours to take out. Not something done in 5 seconds with a click of the button.

Resources are meant to be contested over, controlled and used as tools for politics and economy. There is nothing wrong with removing an enemies resource base. Its common tactics. The problem is how easy it can be done.

[Book]

Taking little time to collect a few trees does help players who don't have a great deal of time in the day and thus can get more done with the downtime they do have. I presume there are probably more of those customers than the ones who have a great deal of time in the long run? Not sure, just my guess.

Diminishing return on number of trees taken down in a set period of time would work just as well as taking a long time to collect trees I think.

The more trees you take out in a set amount of time, the less skill XP you get from each. You eventually reach a limit where you no longer get any xp until the timer resets.

[MrDDT]

Taking little time to collect a few trees does help players who don't have a great deal of time in the day and thus can get more done with the downtime they do have. I presume there are probably more of those customers than the ones who have a great deal of time in the long run? Not sure, just my guess.

Diminishing return on number of trees taken down in a set period of time would work just as well as taking a long time to collect trees I think.

The more trees you take out in a set amount of time, the less skill XP you get from each. You eventually reach a limit where you no longer get any xp until the timer resets.

Then if they do that, they should do it on a lot of things, like killing animals, or gathering from junk piles etc.

If you read my system on it, it allows more skilling off 1 tree but also much greater time put into each tree. It would in my mine fix the problem (once regrowth is in, that's the biggest killer right now).

[Book]

Then if they do that, they should do it on a lot of things, like killing animals, or gathering from junk piles etc.

If you read my system on it, it allows more skilling off 1 tree but also much greater time put into each tree. It would in my mine fix the problem (once regrowth is in, that's the biggest killer right now).

Gathering from junkpiles doesn't give xp.
Killing animals doesn't give direct xp, except for combat (hunting?), which yes, at that point you could apply it to that as well so people don't run around wiping out entire zones to the point things can't breed...
Kind of a way to balance things out.

It's just a thought, not married to it, just throwing it out there for consideration if anyone wants to consider it. What you're suggesting would serve the same purpose, except people who need the wood for reasons other than just skilling (could happen) would be hampered from an "amount of time to play" perspective.

[Mactavendish]

what it also involves is tedious over instant gratification.

Compare limestone walls to wooden walls basically 6 logs and nails to 80 bricks and 20 mortar. The wooden wall takes very little time to make or collect the resources if they are close. Bricks and mortar are very easy to collect but take much more time.

Folks naturally went with what is the easiest and fastest.

Make cutting a tree as time consuming to make as say 80 bricks and 20 mortar and They will opt for the limestone since it is much more plentiful and easy to get.

By making adjustments to durability and quality, woodworkers now have to basically log all day to get high enough skills to make high quality handles for tools and weapons. It may seem like a step in the right direction, but it increases the clear cutting issue even more.

it has been very few players leveling logging by clear cutting.. it will now be most all those doing woodworking so they can make high/very high quality handles.

Kinda a 2 steps forward 1 step back sort of thing. Re-spawning the trees is welcome relief, but we REALLY need to be able to grow them .. and not take a year to have a tree be useful.