Do you really want another DF or MO?

[Jadzia]

Wow, Jadzia. From the sound of it, Jordi should be paying us as members of the dev team, since we are so obviously personally responsible for the current development path of the game. "smirk"

Or maybe we should sue Notorious for copyright infringement, since he stealing all our ideas and none of them are his own.... ppp

I don't get you, did I say anything like we were part of the development team ?
My point is that let them implement what they plan to and see if it works.

[NorCalGooey]

Safe zones were always promised for Prelude, till we can build up walls and gates. We are still in Prelude, very early Prelude, so this is the exact version they promised...nothing has changed. Well one thing has, the alignment system is not implemented....the promised PK penalties are not in place. Still none of us crying about it, though it was a very strong feature of the game.

You keep saying that things has changed. This is simply not true. There is only 1 thing that is in plan to be changed...Xsyon said earlier that after Prelude magical safe zones will be replaced with walls and gates. Since they provide the same level of safety I don't see how is that such a big change...its a logical decision to help new players and to help social interactions.

You equal the removal of safe zones with forced warfare system...which is a huge misunderstanding. If my walls and gates can't be destroyed then I'm just as safe behind them then I would be in a magical safe zone. And Xsyon has never ever said that sieges will be FFA. You know this very well.

Our 45 man tribe has been ready for gates for months now and hardly anyone plays. I think it would be safe for them to remove safe zones two weeks after patching gates live. But really Jadzia without the PvP, do we just craft and build all this stuff for aeshetic value? Yes we do right now (the only value of any items if for PvP benefits...armor, weps...tools that make armor and weps...but the PvP is lacking so what is the value in that? But there should be more than just PvP benefiting items. Like perhaps +crafting items, that make you a higher quality crafter etc.) ...but I'm one of the rare few who can stand doing that sort of thing. and that's not to say I dont' enjoy the other aspect of the game just as much or more even, depending on what I want most that day. Then maybe after a few days of PvP, i'll want nothing more than to spend hours building the city and visa versa. Right now we don't even have that option.

I for one would would love to see NPC guards if they could pull it off right. Only because it would give people something to do if say, t hey didn't want to run 3 zones to the nearest active large tribe and fight with them, they could run to a smaller yet closer tribe and fight with the NPC guards if no one was online. It's just right now there is no PvP option at all. I literally and go and forage and scavenge inside DDTs base to try and provoke them I'm so bored. But other days it's okay, and I can get on Appollo and just build. But the variety really isn't there.

[Drevar]

Appears the sarcasm meter needs some adjusting...LOL. It was a comment on how DDT and others are complaining how you and some others are basically designing (and ruining) the game, and as such should be paid as developers.

Next time I'll include 24 point bold /sarcasm tags.

[Book]

NorCal, I don't think anyone is suggesting there should be no pvp in the game. The question is whether after a long day, I just want to chill out in world a bit... do I have that right? Or do I have to constantly play with the kid who wants to fight?

I'm a little brother, I tormented my older brother to play with me all the time as a kid... I know how annoying it can be, and don't want to go through it

DDT, you know the PVE side isn't as fully implemented to claim it's what anyone wants just yet. Much is already cool, but much is to come as well. For example comfort, thirst and hunger as just one example. Doesn't sound very genuine to claim the current state of affairs proves anything. Well, it does prove there's a heck of a lot of potential and plenty reason to keep an eye on things and remain interested.

Also, as someone who likes to say he's one of very few who think things through... why is it you still fail to see the proper causality when it comes to the existence of safe zones? It's fine to stomp your foot and say others are crying, though it's not remotely going to help anything. Better solution would be to think it through completely to the initial cause and address that.

Walls and gates are offered as a solution if people are so intent on not having safe zones... but then it's immediately a question of when will folks be able to break through that.

I'm somewhat hopeful that siege mechanics will take long enough, with comfort, hunger and thirst requiring enough investment to maintain the siege, that it won't be worth it to bother homesteads... much like the level of thought and planning that would go into a siege to begin with.

Mac, I get where you're coming from. On the other hand... much of the focus on combat at the moment is apparently because that's the feedback devs supposedly got about why people are leaving. I know of many who left for other reasons, but simply didn't complain on their way out. Remaining silent isn't going to necessarily help. I've been in other games I enjoyed very much, but stayed silent hoping the dev team would know better than to listen to a very vocal minority as opposed to understanding the silent majority. It didn't work out that way, and those games were ruined. Fine with me if things don't work out to my preferences here, totally cool, but I'd rather know I did speak up.

[Jadzia]

Appears the sarcasm meter needs some adjusting...LOL. It was a comment on how DDT and others are complaining how you and some others are basically designing (and ruining) the game, and as such should be paid as developers.

Next time I'll include 24 point bold /sarcasm tags.

Oh !! Sorry, lol. Sometimes its hard to recognize sarcasm on the forums

Our 45 man tribe has been ready for gates for months now and hardly anyone plays. I think it would be safe for them to remove safe zones two weeks after patching gates live. But really Jadzia without the PvP, do we just craft and build all this stuff for aeshetic value? Yes we do right now (the only value of any items if for PvP benefits...armor, weps...tools that make armor and weps...but the PvP is lacking so what is the value in that? But there should be more than just PvP benefiting items. Like perhaps +crafting items, that make you a higher quality crafter etc.) ...but I'm one of the rare few who can stand doing that sort of thing. and that's not to say I dont' enjoy the other aspect of the game just as much or more even, depending on what I want most that day. Then maybe after a few days of PvP, i'll want nothing more than to spend hours building the city and visa versa. Right now we don't even have that option.

I agree with you that PvP is lacking a lot ....lacking opportunities, purpose and fun. Its hardly usable due to combat problems and desync.
Buildings need to have a purpose...even if you could siege my camp then what ? You get a tent which has no use at all ? The game's problem is not only the lack of PvP...but the lack of buildings having an actual use. But they are working on it so I hope it will change soon.
I hope you will find people in the game to fight...but believe me the solution is not to force me into it. I can assure you that wouldn't provide too much fun for you, neither for me.

[NorCalGooey]

Oh !! Sorry, lol. Sometimes its hard to recognize sarcasm on the forums


I agree with you that PvP is lacking a lot ....lacking opportunities, purpose and fun. Its hardly usable due to combat problems and desync.
Buildings need to have a purpose...even if you could siege my camp then what ? You get a tent which has no use at all ? The game's problem is not only the lack of PvP...but the lack of buildings having an actual use. But they are working on it so I hope it will change soon.
I hope you will find people in the game to fight...but believe me the solution is not to force me into it. I can assure you that wouldn't provide too much fun for you, neither for me.

No, you see, you won't be forced to attack others. Just forced to defend yourself...and rarely even then. You'd have to piss off some people quite a bit and have a bunch of them coming knocking at your gates with battering rams. I think I would really like a pre siege timer like darkfall. That way we won't have to add in NPCs to defend against a sneaky siege attack when no one is on

I'm not huge into warfare or PKing on the offensive. I certainly would enjoy fighting in the city we built though. I would not mind at all if someone came to attack us, that's there choice. They will have to suffer the consequences of horrible reputation, which is far worse than the benefit of looting a few items or knocking down a few walls. I think we would only go on the offensive after we have been forced onto the defensive. But even then it's not certain. Depends on if we think we can win the war or not

I don't see why you think you should get your own safe zone (or anyone). The only way I would be okay with someone having a safe zone is if that meant they could not attack others in their non safe zones....even then...just makes th e game so boring


and I think the whole point of the sieging is the fun and territory control. they don't care about your tent, they care about your land. but that's why i think the capital totem (w/e you want to call it, what we have now) should have no capture abilities, but also no safe zone...meaning full loot and killing (perhaps no destruction of tents...only gates) that way you at least know you will always have a home (your items wont be safe, but if they were, no high risk pvp could exist, due to safe zone ALT ACCOUNT tribes where PVP tribes would store there valuables)

then expansion totems = 100% real life rules, totem capture, everything destructible, stone buildings by siege, wood buildings can be torched, etc.

[Jadzia]

I don't see why you think you should get your own safe zone (or anyone). The only way I would be okay with someone having a safe zone is if that meant they could not attack others in their non safe zones....

Yes of course. This is how they plan it.

and I think the whole point of the sieging is the fun and territory control. they don't care about your tent, they care about your land. but that's why i think the capital totem (w/e you want to call it, what we have now) should have no capture abilities, but also no safe zone...meaning full loot and killing (perhaps no destruction of tents...only gates)

Ok so let's imagine there is no safe zone for capital totems, but no capture abilities either. So I can build walls and gates and be just as safe inside as I am now. How is that such a huge difference ? I really think that it is the exactly same. I'm safe, with one system or the other one.

[Mactavendish]

Book, I appreciate what you say, but think I need to state again that I believe this game has to have pvp to even work.

I have always maintained a different perspective here than most, in that I don't participate in direct pvp with other players by doing physical battle with them.

I am the other side of the pvp coin.

What this means is I fully plan on getting the best and rare resources, by exploiting the resources where they are found regardless of the risk, and then retreating to our heavily fortified village to trade these items to others. This is where the excitement for me comes in. succeeding against organized players trying to stop me, but all done without direct pvp on my part.

I never run around naked, I always have gear to loot and will avoid direct conflict when I can, and will not cry when looted by some scared group of naked children. I say scared because they are naked because they are scared of losing anything at all... they run in groups because they are scared of losing a battle ( and thus losing a bit of face ). I have no such fear. I mean really. The only thing they can do is kill my toon and loot my stuff. That only gives me more to try and acquire or replace. and every time I succeed against such forces, I have proven to myself that I am doing much better than them.

I don't care about safe zones. I am happy they will have pvp in this game, and as the box gets filled with sand, I am looking forward to the excitement that pvp will bring to the game I signed up here to play.

My voice says well done so far to jordi and crew and keep going. I already know we will go through a down period and that they will get the game where it needs to be and advertise and we will have plenty of players to interact with.

In the mean time I will not waste any time with folks not looking at the big picture. ( and yeah, what that means is subjective to me and probably does not match the more vocal folks here but *shrugs* Meh )

Another thought...

Even according to what the front page says, the game could develop into one faction trying to restore civilization while another tries to tear it down. Jordi wants both to exist here and I am totally fine with that. I just plan on being a restorer and re-builder not a destroyer.

[MrDDT]

Safe zones were always promised for Prelude, till we can build up walls and gates. We are still in Prelude, very early Prelude, so this is the exact version they promised...nothing has changed. Well one thing has, the alignment system is not implemented....the promised PK penalties are not in place. Still none of us crying about it, though it was a very strong feature of the game.

You keep saying that things has changed. This is simply not true. There is only 1 thing that is in plan to be changed...Xsyon said earlier that after Prelude magical safe zones will be replaced with walls and gates. Since they provide the same level of safety I don't see how is that such a big change...its a logical decision to help new players and to help social interactions.

You equal the removal of safe zones with forced warfare system...which is a huge misunderstanding. If my walls and gates can't be destroyed then I'm just as safe behind them then I would be in a magical safe zone. And Xsyon has never ever said that sieges will be FFA. You know this very well.

Tons of things have changed you are nuts. What about 2 servers? What about EARLY PRELUDE WOULD REMOVE SAFE ZONES?
Im sorry that you cant see it, and that you forgot what the game was about since day 1. But these all have changed. Heck even the features have changed. How are those resource controls?
If you think people are crying over gates vs safe zones then clearly you still missing the point of all the PVPers.
PVPers dont care there are a few safe areas in the game. They care that the safe areas are able to control resources ANYWHERE on the map AT any time. Full looting is NOT in the game. They care that these stupid private bins are littering the world, and that people can do whatever they want and there is NOTHING a PVPer can do other than move or deal with it.

Safe zones should be limited to special areas, OR give PVPers zones where we can go and have contested areas. We are not asking for 100% of the map you and the carebears are. PVPers are asking for DIFFICULTY VS REWARD!!!

When PVE gets more difficult than PVP, then they should be rewarded more, until then PVP is as far as I know one of the hardest things. When you consider losing your whole totem and all that time, fighting vs the best tactics, then the reward should be great.
Right now killing a bear, and avoiding the 1 PVPer in the whole game isnt very difficult.

Im done talking to you about this.

I should come wall your totem in, and see what you think about your safe totem area then. The system is freaking bad in SOOOO many ways.

Added after 7 minutes:

DDT, you know the PVE side isn't as fully implemented to claim it's what anyone wants just yet. Much is already cool, but much is to come as well. For example comfort, thirst and hunger as just one example. Doesn't sound very genuine to claim the current state of affairs proves anything. Well, it does prove there's a heck of a lot of potential and plenty reason to keep an eye on things and remain interested.

Also, as someone who likes to say he's one of very few who think things through... why is it you still fail to see the proper causality when it comes to the existence of safe zones? It's fine to stomp your foot and say others are crying, though it's not remotely going to help anything. Better solution would be to think it through completely to the initial cause and address that.

Walls and gates are offered as a solution if people are so intent on not having safe zones... but then it's immediately a question of when will folks be able to break through that.

I'm somewhat hopeful that siege mechanics will take long enough, with comfort, hunger and thirst requiring enough investment to maintain the siege, that it won't be worth it to bother homesteads... much like the level of thought and planning that would go into a siege to begin with.

.

Sorry, hunger thirst are in the game. Comfort has nothing to do with PVE.

Book, are you trying to say Ive not thought through this and posted many ideas on how to change the system? But you get people like Jadzia that think "We need more safe areas to fix the problem with too many safe totems" They come in with knee jerk ways of fixing something which only hurt it more, and make no sense.
I post a great system for both sides to be more than happy with what would be put into it, and the carebears want it all. "Oh if rare resources are in contested areas only then we are forced into those areas as carebears" then they cry "Well if they going to do something like that we cant agree on anything and should have 2 servers".

They wont give 1" to try to fix the game. Worst part like I said, is that they think they want all these safety options with resources inside their safety bubble. Then when econ sucks, people are bored and everyone has 100 in every skill. They are like "Well we need more stuff to do". Its like really? Didnt we just say that your bad idea of doing all that safetly crap was killing the game?


I will say it again, EVERY AREA SHOULDNT BE ABLE TO BE TAKEN. THERE NEEDS TO BE SAFE ZONES. I hope that is clear. Now moving on from that point. Having a safe zone in every part of the map at anytime is the problem with the system.

No, you see, you won't be forced to attack others. Just forced to defend yourself...and rarely even then. You'd have to piss off some people quite a bit and have a bunch of them coming knocking at your gates with battering rams. I think I would really like a pre siege timer like darkfall. That way we won't have to add in NPCs to defend against a sneaky siege attack when no one is on

Dont you understand she wants safe zones to be able to piss anyone off she wants and still be able to stick her tongue out and say "nan nah a booboo you cant hurt me". She wants all the resources at her finger tips and control them forever, without anyone stopping her in anyway. Then when she chooses to PVP, it will be on her terms and she will risk nothing.

[JCatano]

Safe zones were always promised for Prelude, till we can build up walls and gates. We are still in Prelude, very early Prelude, so this is the exact version they promised...nothing has changed. Well one thing has, the alignment system is not implemented....the promised PK penalties are not in place. Still none of us crying about it, though it was a very strong feature of the game.

You keep saying that things has changed. This is simply not true. There is only 1 thing that is in plan to be changed...Xsyon said earlier that after Prelude magical safe zones will be replaced with walls and gates. Since they provide the same level of safety I don't see how is that such a big change...its a logical decision to help new players and to help social interactions.

You equal the removal of safe zones with forced warfare system...which is a huge misunderstanding. If my walls and gates can't be destroyed then I'm just as safe behind them then I would be in a magical safe zone. And Xsyon has never ever said that sieges will be FFA. You know this very well.

Keithstone asks:

Can architecture structures be damaged by other players at any time?

As the game evolves yes. This won't be in for a while as towns are planned as safe zones in the Prelude, though I am considered tribes to allow to choose if they want to be warring tribes during the Prelude. Warring tribes will be able to attack each other.


Implying consentual tribe area warfare during Prelude, and back to the original idea of simply removing safe zones after that time period. Nowhere in there does it say that walls and gates would mean a "safe zone". So, yes... It has changed.