Global Currency or Item for Item Barter?

[Darenkel]

Place a building in newbie starting areas that buys basic resources and animal parts for a set value. There would be no actual NPC in this building, just something like a menu board that the player clicks. The prices could change dynamically based on how many items have been sold per time period. That is, as more bolts are sold to it, the price it buys the bolts for decreases. This would also give players a place to buy basic resources and the price that items are resold could be = (the price unit is bought)(multiplier based on how many are availible that will be greater than 1)(static "tax" that gets removed from the system). The buildings would have an infinite amount of currency that they can distribute.

Explaining this through the lore might be difficult, but I honestly don't think that most people care about the lore. Especially since there are no NPCs and quest lines to tell a story.

Edit: The arguements for this working are that it provides an outlet for currency to be introduced into the game without the players having to have started with currency. It gives the currency value because the currency can be traded in for different [consumable] resources, and players can trade currency around for things that they want. Eventually this currency would get back to the crafters and the crafters could use the currency to buy from the terminals or the players--which ever would give the better deal at the time. Basically crafters will be in competition to offer better prices over the terminal, but so too will the people selling resources.

From what dimension do you hail from? I don't know about you, but even something like this, would be pushing the sci-fi barrier a bit, imo...

Unless of course, this was based on our 'ancestors' being visited by a star-faring race, shortly before the apocalypse, where the only bit of technology to remain intact, was their matter transmitting/market terminals... as unlikely and lore-bending as that might be.

Personally, I wouldn't want to take a game in that direction, unless it was already sci-fi based.

[mrcalhou]

Dude, it's freaking semantics. THE SYSTEM that I described could be designed to fit in thematically with the way the game is going. Please forgive me for my poor word choice.

But as I mentioned, this game has NO STORY. Just a backdrop. What I suggested is a fairly simple way to make a functional and user-friendly economy. The item-for-item trade system works great if you want to spend time shouting in chat about what you want to buy and sell. Without some standard currency, automating the trade system will be a pain beyond the nine hells.

Also, this game is "sci-fi." It takes place in the future. It incorporates some elements of fantasy with the demons/whatever taking over the world, but it's not JUST fantasy. In anycase, NONE of this matters, because the system I described can be implemented regardless of theme.

[Darenkel]

Also, this game is "sci-fi." It takes place in the future. It incorporates some elements of fantasy with the demons/whatever taking over the world, but it's not JUST fantasy. In anycase, NONE of this matters, because the system I described can be implemented regardless of theme.

Not even sure it would classify as sci-fi because there is currently nothing fictional about the science currently in the game. If I really wanted to, I could make any item that is currently in the game, with modern methods.

Semantics can mean the difference between a decent game and a great one. There is no sci-fi about this game. Nuclear weapons created the green fog; all of our 'current' technology isn't even really available at this point. So if it was classified as anything, it would be a post-apocalyptic fantasy world... nothing "sci-fi" about that.

Also, your system would make people ask, 'Why isn't there global storage?'. I know I would ask that... (btw, buying and selling stuff to a terminal, would end up functioning almost the exact same way as a limitless global storage, but with great exploitability, in the long run)

But hey, if you can find one thing that actually fits into the 'post-modern technology' thing that sci-fi encompansses, please, prove me wrong. All I've seen is a world that has had the technological clock reversed and cracked a bit, but not advanced, in any ways.

[mrcalhou]

Not even sure it would classify as sci-fi because there is currently nothing fictional about the science currently in the game. If I really wanted to, I could make any item that is currently in the game, with modern methods.

Semantics can mean the difference between a decent game and a great one. There is no sci-fi about this game. Nuclear weapons created the green fog; all of our 'current' technology isn't even really available at this point. So if it was classified as anything, it would be a post-apocalyptic fantasy world... nothing "sci-fi" about that.

Also, your system would make people ask, 'Why isn't there global storage?'. I know I would ask that... (btw, buying and selling stuff to a terminal, would end up functioning almost the exact same way as a limitless global storage, but with great exploitability, in the long run)

But hey, if you can find one thing that actually fits into the 'post-modern technology' thing that sci-fi encompansses, please, prove me wrong. All I've seen is a world that has had the technological clock reversed and cracked a bit, but not advanced, in any ways.

I don't care to argue what is sci-fi and what isn't. I know that Television shows such as Jericho and Jeremiah are classified as sci-fi even though the events and settings are theoretically plausible, they just haven't happened.

Anyway, as far as the global storage goes, I never once mentioned that each one would be linked to the others. I guess I should have been more specific to imply that I would have each one be it's own seperate entity devoid of any influence from the others. The storage aspect would be nullified by the fact that in my system, the price that it buys items decreases as more and more items are sold to it. Yes, I would have it so that items that the "trading post" has a lot of relative to other items would sell at a lower price relative to other resources, BUT ALWAYS MORE than it bought that unit for.

For instance if I sell 100 logs to the trading post, then I'd get 10 "copper" (I don't care what form the currency takes this is just an example) for each of the first 10, then 9 for each of the next then, then 8, and so on. So that for all 100 logs I'd get 550 copper. If I wanted to buy them all back then it would cost more, let's say double. So that the first log I bought back I paid 2 copper, but I'd had to pay 20 copper for that last log (the first one I sold). In this example, I think that the price of storage would be really expensive.

In any case I would always have it so that this way brings money into the game, but also leeches money out. Yes it's true that one day a person can sell high and buy low, but they won't know when that it is because the prices would be constantly changing to meet supply and demand. I don't see how this would be exploitable.

Or they can just take my idea and ditch the ability to buy back completely. Keep the price fluctation with selling to avoid items having a fixed price, and add an auction house type building to the game. Where some of the money comes out in the form of taxes payed (This money would just disappear. Taxes are good to help regulate and keep things from becoming flooded with currency). There could even be player owned and tribal owned auction houses where a little bit of the tax goes to them instead of disappearing.

[Darenkel]

Or they can just take my idea and ditch the ability to buy back completely. Keep the price fluctation with selling to avoid items having a fixed price, and add an auction house type building to the game. Where some of the money comes out in the form of taxes payed (This money would just disappear. Taxes are good to help regulate and keep things from becoming flooded with currency). There could even be player owned and tribal owned auction houses where a little bit of the tax goes to them instead of disappearing.

I see a great price inflation in your future, young grasshopper. Even with a high-ish tax rate, inflation would probably continue at an ever increasing rate. I've seen that, in about every MMO I've ever played. If you want to prevent inflation, prevent a global economy. Eventually though, one will emerge, whether we want it to, or not. The lazy gamer seems to prefer a system that is over-simplified, but that doesn't mean we need to make it easy for them, to achieve.

[Jadzia]

I like mrcalhou's idea. We need currency IMO, and his idea is a good way to give a source of money to the game.

[mrcalhou]

I see a great price inflation in your future, young grasshopper. Even with a high-ish tax rate, inflation would probably continue at an ever increasing rate. I've seen that, in about every MMO I've ever played. If you want to prevent inflation, prevent a global economy. Eventually though, one will emerge, whether we want it to, or not. The lazy gamer seems to prefer a system that is over-simplified, but that doesn't mean we need to make it easy for them, to achieve.

"Or"

[VeryWiiTee]

As far as I know Eve do have a currency.

I played a game with barter system, and its nothing but a headache. If you need something rare, its almost impossible to set up a correct price for it. And since its rare, not many player will have it...and its very likely that you won't have the stuff that he wants in return.

For example you want to buy a metal decoration...someone has it, you offer 100 logs for it. He is like "no no I bought if for 1000 nails ! I want 20 purple feathers for it!" Now you can go out to try to find someone with 20 purple feathers and hope he will ask for something you do have....

I was in this situation before, was trying to buy a rare stuffs, the owner asked another rare stuff in return, and so on. Since there are no set prices, its very hard to make a deal. I gave up on it.

Well, Jadzia that is the whole point of a Barter system.
- If you aren't satisfied with his price.. You barter for a lower.

Honestly, do we absolutely NEED to have a system, can't we just use currency and items without having game mechanics to regulate it for us?
- We aren't that dumbfucked that we can't figure out a system ourselves in-game. We did turn on a pc so, finding common ground on trading shouldn't be that hard. Tribes can set-up trade routes with other tribes (herein discuss terms of the trading as well as how to pay, values etc), have their own currency and you can barter.

I don't like his system. We are supposed to run this world. Not some sort of in-game system.
That we, then, lack proper ways of actually trading is another thing .

[Jadzia]

Well, Jadzia that is the whole point of a Barter system.
- If you aren't satisfied with his price.. You barter for a lower.

Honestly, do we absolutely NEED to have a system, can't we just use currency and items without having game mechanics to regulate it for us?
- We aren't that dumbfucked that we can't figure out a system ourselves in-game. We did turn on a pc so, finding common ground on trading shouldn't be that hard. Tribes can set-up trade routes with other tribes (herein discuss terms of the trading as well as how to pay, values etc), have their own currency and you can barter.

I don't like his system. We are supposed to run this world. Not some sort of in-game system.
That we, then, lack proper ways of actually trading is another thing .

My problem in my example wasn't the high price, but the fact that you can't get the needed item. There is something you want to buy, still you can't, because you don't own the item the other player wants in return.

There is a reason why we don't use barter system in real world anymore...because it makes trading much more difficult.

But if I understand you well, you are not against currency, but you want us to be able to create that currency ? Can you give an example of it ?

[mrcalhou]

Well, Jadzia that is the whole point of a Barter system.
- If you aren't satisfied with his price.. You barter for a lower.

Honestly, do we absolutely NEED to have a system, can't we just use currency and items without having game mechanics to regulate it for us?
- We aren't that dumbfucked that we can't figure out a system ourselves in-game. We did turn on a pc so, finding common ground on trading shouldn't be that hard. Tribes can set-up trade routes with other tribes (herein discuss terms of the trading as well as how to pay, values etc), have their own currency and you can barter.

I don't like his system. We are supposed to run this world. Not some sort of in-game system.
That we, then, lack proper ways of actually trading is another thing .

What you are suggesting works fine if you want to spam the chat channels to trade, but I'm trying to help develop a system so that people don't NEED to shout in chat all day to trade. You have to realize that the price of goods will be constantly changing based on supply and demand.

I suppose it could be set-up so that each player can define what value each item has for them (god that will be so freaking annoying, especially if each item can have different quality versions and stats), and then in order for someone to buy something from that person they would have to trade enough stuff to them to fill up a bar that matches to trade value of the item they are trying to buy. But I'd rather just spam chat to sell then to have to go through all that crap.