Something needs to change.

[Rothkur]

I think Ravelli pretty much hit the nail on the head. Busy time of year for folks, and recent release of much anticipated game (right or wrong).

As to why an ex-player should care to come back... I'd have to ask what it was about the game they liked to begin with before that can be answered.
The things I enjoyed about the game have been expanded, and quite a bit at that. I've really enjoyed that new content since coming back in, but that's largely because said content is in line with what I liked to begin with.

That won't be the case for everyone I presume, based on what it was they liked to begin with, assuming there was something they did like.

It sometimes seems as though I'm the only one that finds a challenge in the animals I do encounter. Bears, coyotes, deer, they do kill me. I'm far from having 100 in everything and don't rush to the top by any stretch. Only reason I mention this is to point out that not everyone is in the same predicament.

With a skill cap in place it would be much easier to balance NPC encounters and require cooperation on the part of players to defeat large animals like bears, coyotes, dears, moose, etc. I'm not sure what players like DDT being the ultimate renaissance superman adds to the gameplay.

[MrDDT]

I think Ravelli pretty much hit the nail on the head. Busy time of year for folks, and recent release of much anticipated game (right or wrong).

As to why an ex-player should care to come back... I'd have to ask what it was about the game they liked to begin with before that can be answered.
The things I enjoyed about the game have been expanded, and quite a bit at that. I've really enjoyed that new content since coming back in, but that's largely because said content is in line with what I liked to begin with.

That won't be the case for everyone I presume, based on what it was they liked to begin with, assuming there was something they did like.

It sometimes seems as though I'm the only one that finds a challenge in the animals I do encounter. Bears, coyotes, deer, they do kill me. I'm far from having 100 in everything and don't rush to the top by any stretch. Only reason I mention this is to point out that not everyone is in the same predicament.

Book, I kill them on a 1 day old toon. They are not that hard. Sure it might take another player (noob also) but there should be more than the same old stuff off them. Gear isnt going to help you here, its knowing how to play a little better is all.
Most gear in this game hurts you. Bone armor surely isnt worth the stamina loss. Weapons are really the only thing worthwhile and even then most people I know have one of the best weapons in the game the preorder weapon.

Market and economy in this game are so lacking. These harder animals should be not only harder, but yield more or better. Young mutants yield the same as the 9 year old ones. The bonus off these items are minor at best, and even still why do you want them? The bonuses themselves dont add enough weight to use rare stuff.
15% more damage for 15 items of the rarest stuff in the game made by the best players in the game of their craft with the best tools and stats, is not even remotely close to being enough bonus to warrant someone hauling these goods back and worrying about crafting with them.

Try killing some of these mutants and then without deathporting back bring the bones back. Haha its a chore at best.

Anyways, I'm sure in a few years of having few people playing you guys will come around. I can see things already starting to come around for other opinions vets of sandbox games have been saying for years on these forums.

[Rothkur]

Xsyon would have plenty more players and cash in the pockets of the developers if it was $15/month with a 1-2 week free trial for new players. Obviously these trials couldn't place totems to avoid that issue altogether. More cash in the game means faster development of the features you want to see DDT.

[Dubanka]

Xsyon would have plenty more players and cash in the pockets of the developers if it was $15/month with a 1-2 week free trial for new players. Obviously these trials couldn't place totems to avoid that issue altogether. More cash in the game means faster development of the features you want to see DDT.

It is funny that this is the same discussion that has been had ad nauseum since feb/mar.
the game needs xyz
no it's fine
--lose players---
the game isn't fun, it needs xyz
no it's fine...it's you not the game.
--lose more players--
Seriously the game is pretty much pointless after you build up your totem area
/sigh. Thats why you tear it down and build it up again (and again)...jeez
--lose more players--

anyway. book's answer pretty much summed it up re: my question...It's me, not the game

[stonedogg1]

I've posted the following on the Legion website:

After playing this game for well over a year for free, the new account system has finally found me.

I remember when I would loose sleep waiting to get into this game & would gladly have paid $15/month to do so.

Now...I'm not so sure. I love our tribe. I love what we have accomplished (and what we're in the process of accomplishing). I love the community.

I don't know if I love the thought of how this game is progressing and the thought of paying $15 a month to see more combat tweeks, more critters to kill (even if they are zombies), no skill caps or decay, no reason to interact outside the tribe, etc... I'd be willing to do $5/month for a LITTLE while to see where this is going without hesitation, but $15...I'm just not sure.

So this doesn't come off as a rant, here is what I personnaly think needs to be done to keep me (and others) here:

1) FIX CRAFTING - Unclean & I have had numerous discussions on this. His toon is BY FAR the most knowledgable crafter in game. The time DDT & he have spent testing things and finding issues is phenominal. I just wish the developers would listen to what he has to say when he tells them about the major problems.
2) FIX/TURN ON DECAY - for items and tribes. 'Nuff said.
3) SKILL CAPS - Turn on skill decay. If the developers want players to have 100 skills in almost everything, at least program in a golden glow for them to reflect their "god-like" status. The developers have already stated that this was their original intent. Have it easy for a player to keep a 100 skill in one craft and exponentially harder to keep it for every other one they have.
4) GIVE ME A REASON TO STAY (QUESTS) - PVP is all well and good. Every MMO I've ever played has been PVP centric. BUT...Every MMO I've played has had an element of PVE as well. Look at the most succesful sandbox MMO of all time...EVE (and no, I do not play it, but have done the 14 day trail - just wasn't my bag). This game has uber players at all times in a primarily player controlled world (universe). But also consider the PVE element of this game. The are mass amounts of it. I know the developers have stated that they wanted player driven quests & that's great - BUT...They've never given us the tools to create them (and this was something I've been looking forward to - I'm a creative person & think that I would be able to regularly come up with some interesting PVE quests for people to come to Legion, read our quest que & generate some fun for the community). Further, a developer quest system (quests put in by developers) would be an ideal vehicle for them to stear the community toward their vision of the game world (think history quests, magical implementation quests, revenant quests, economy quests, etc...). Even EVE holds the nOObs hands at the beginning to give new players a sence of the world. Here's a link to one of my suggestions: http://www.xsyon.com/forum/project.php?issueid=1408
5) BRING IN MORE PLAYERS - Face it - With a peak population of approximately 50 people, this game is doomed. I believe that #4 (above) will go a long way toward keeping new players for a while. I define a while as an amount of time directly proportional to the amount of time the developers put into the questing system assuming ABSOLUTELY NO CURRENT PLAYERS CREATE MORE QUESTS. The developers have to plan for a worst ase senario.
6) END GAME - No, I am not suggesting there be end game content. What I am throwing out for consideration is the following: Once a player has achieved what he/she has set out to do (be it quests, skill capping, building, whatever...), WHY WILL THEY STAY? The developers need to keep this in mind. Give long time players a reason to stick around. Territory control. Capitol cities. Magical content. ANYTHING.

I'm going to post the above on the official forums to see what kind of response comes of it. Please keep in mind - I AM ON THE FENCE HERE. I really want to play this game. I will probably re-sub for a month or so. But past that, I just do not know...

If you have a comment on this, please post it on the official forums, not here. The developers need to see the communities comments.

Let me also add (to the developers):
1) THANK YOU for the free time (even if it was unintentional).
2) THANK YOU for the start of a truely great game.
3) THANK YOU for being active in your community.
4) You have done a wonderful job at starting a wonderful sandbox. Remember: Every sandbox has a shape crafted by you. Craft your sandbox in such a manner that thousands will want to play in it.

(to the Community):
1) THANK YOU for being who you are (a little twisted like me).
2) THANK YOU for treating new players with respect.
3) THANK YOU for continuing to offer suggestions to the developers.
4) PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE contue to push the developers to keep this game fresh. Do not do it for selfish reasons. Do it to make a good sandbox great. Push the developers to implement ways to attract new players and keep old ones. Don't worry about carts. Don't worry about cooking. Worry about being able to play in this sandbox one, two, three years down the line. This game could be the post-apocolyptic EVE.

I think I'll re-sub for a month (or so), but I really do not know after that...

[Mactavendish]

I must say, great discussion so far folks!

Jordi, I sure hope you are seeing this thread.

Many tribes in this game have from 40-140 members, and only 2-3 actives. We have all seen most of our friends quietly drift away to other games. The reasons have been stated over and over.

I personally am a very patient person. Being an older player, ( 55yrs old ) I am able to put up with much more than many of my fellow players. Many of the improvements we have seen in xsyon have been thing I personally enjoy, so it has been fine for me.

But... The points folks are making make it obvious that I am not the typical player.

Shoot most of the people still playing here are not your typical mmo player. We are all of us veterans of many games, seen great PVE content and great communities... and yet we left those games mostly because they did not entertain us any longer. Whether it was a game mechanic, lack of new content, or even irritation towards other players, the bottom line is we lost interest.

The same thing is happening here.. and the effect is speeding up.

Of the last 20 new members to my tribe, we have retained 4. Most that join us are looking to craft and build. That's what we are all about. But we still lose them when they see just how much grind there is in building. You must also be an accomplished Terraformer to build anything more than a simple 1 story house.

They get frustrated with NO animals to be found.
They get frustrated with the many thousands of items they get while scav'in that have no purpose.
They get frustrated with the lack of trade, commerce, and needs that don't matter if you fulfill them or not.

They get frustrated by simple game play.

It is happening more and more to even the most die hard supporters of this game.

Please, before ANYTHING else give us something to keep us occupied that does NOT frustrate us.

[Book]

anyway. book's answer pretty much summed it up re: my question...It's me, not the game

Not so much.

Difficult to ascertain whether someone would be pleasantly surprised with the content that's been added without knowing what they liked about the game to begin with.

Hence, what did you like about it to begin with?
I'm not asking what you liked about what you thought it would be but didn't turn out to be (boohoo, cry me a river as I play tiny violins).
I'm not asking for woulda coulda shouldas, nor I-knew-it-,-I-knew-it-all-alongs, ad nauseum indeed.

Simply, what was it you liked about actual gameplay you experienced?

As Dave said, he tried Eve, he didn't like it. Doesn't mean he's a problem. Doesn't mean it's a bad game. Just is what it is.

I presume there will be a number of people who wake up to sticker shock at the thought that the game is no longer free. On the other hand, considering the amount of time one spends in game, $15/month is not a bad deal. Would barely have covered the first five minutes of a bar tab back in the day. Wouldn't cover two movie tickets. Etc.

Am I saying everything is perfect as is? Of course not. Only perfection I've ever experienced in life is in the eyes of another, but that's about it.

[stonedogg1]

I look at the $15/month as not a bad thing if the game were a little polished. Christ, that's only a couple packs of smokes for me (& I wanna quite anyway).

Unfortunately, I do not consider $15/month a worth-while investment for combat tweeks, more critters, new skills, etc...when I look at the big picture.

The big picture being - What will keep people playing this game? What will bring new people into this game? and MOST importantly... What will make the developers the most money (face it - $ makes the world go 'round)?

Beautiful tribal zones? What will the tribe members do when they get them built?
Introduce new skills? To what purpose?
Intoduce new critters (or mutants/zombies/etc...)? Why? After a little while, killing NPCs for the sake of killing them gets old.

I truely look at the last year spent in-game as an extended beta test. I'd like to think that I've helped the developers (in some small way) to make a better game world. I just don't know if I'm willing to continually pay $15/month for something that I do not see growing.

Unfortunately, without content or purpose, the world will begin to rot.

[Mactavendish]

You know, its not about fanboi's or haters.

It is about retention and growth.

We keep dropping in number, we keep seeing new players leave after a few days... ( and yes spending 40 bucks and not even sticking around for the full month SHOULD be telling you the story )

This simply has to stop.

I cannot predict that the game will fail, I sure hope it does not. It does seem that Jordi does not need money to keep the game going in it's current state. More players only means the ability to add to staff to make things progress faster. But maybe he does not want it to grow atm.

500 accounts, and 50 max players online is a very tiny game.

Communication is actually great here. Sure some are taking part in the holidays, but things are still being worked on. So don't take this as simple griping... it is much much more.

This thread has crossed all in game lines. We have folks on opposing side here agreeing on the very same things. This too should tell you that many if not most are feeling the very same things and that is a VERY bad thing for this game.

Mihr, ( I see you watching this thread ) Pass along to the boss that we need a bone here. When most of the natives get restless, there is revolt on the horizon. What happens when the 50 that are playing finally give up? Maybe they will just switch to playing something else until things improve, but without us to test the progress will grind to a halt. What then? As each week goes by another long term vet "takes a break". Pretty soon you will have 1 or 2 players left... not much of a game

I am myself beginning to wonder when or if we will ever have purpose or reason in this game. Building walls and castles means nothing atm. Nothing has any meaning besides to joy of doing it. I personally LOVE to build and that can hold me for some time. But I really don't want to play a game where its me and ddt and 3 other guys in game since everyone else quit.

Please. DO something.

[stonedogg1]

Great response, Mac.

I consider myself a long time player. I have no beefs with anyone on these forums or in game.

I just want to KNOW that this game will grow & time in-game will count for something.

I too, love to build - but you can only take that so far.

Hell - now that the accounting system is fixed (I think), I wouldn't even mind getting no free time (since all my time has been free to this point) if I KNEW the game content & purpose was expanding.