Global Currency or Item for Item Barter?

[mrcalhou]

Well cant you give your tribe items (sell) for the swords you would need to trade for a dress? Maybe Im missing your point. Sounds like a crappy tribe if you have to do something like that, but hey thats just me.

Tribe A cant have all the crafts? You think only 1 person is going to craft something in the whole tribe? Im pretty sure that if they get someone that is capped out on what they can learn they would start having others learn it.

Again still, having money or barter in the game isnt going to change the need to trade, only limited resources would.

See why not just have vaults in the game? Or better yet a mail system too? Thats easy right?

If you want "easy" you are looking at the wrong game, its meant to be fun. If you have a mail system it would fix your problem wouldnt it? So lets just have mail boxes that can export items all around the world. Haha why? Because it would break the econ system of what you have now. Limited resources and trading.

If you cant pay someone for your dress because x items they want are too heavy, well tell you what, you sound like you need to pay someone to export it for you. Now you have a great working economy. Sounds like real shipping in the world now. I have items I want (car) that I want from Europe, but if I buy it from there, Im going to have to pay shipping costs because for me to buy a boat and move it over here myself would be very hard. So I pay a 3rd party to transport it over here for me.

Even better would be if I could say, do that 3rd parties taxes so he doesnt have to pay a 4th party for that with the money Im going to give him.

Im not saying having a barter system now would be better than the credit card system we have (haha). Just saying that you can use 3rd party trading and good selling and you dont have to use your tribemates, and maybe use others. It makes a better working econ when you can do that.

First off. Not everyone will be in a tribe or want to be in a tribe. Some ARE going to want to be lone wolves.

Haveing a currency system is NOT like the other systems. It's not. I NEVER ONCE said that there should be a "vault" system or a mail system. How many times am I going to have to augment my posts with: "Local resources and local economies help promote trading across regions and that that is a good thing for the economy?" I don't even know why you extrapolated my idea regarding currency to having those other systems because I even said in my posts that I wasn't refering to that.

I want a currency so I don't have to stand in a town trying to trade all day. I want a currency so people can put things in a market/auction house/whatever you want to call it type of building/totem/whatever you want it to be, so I can buy things without them having to be there and irregardless of what items I have on me at that particular point in time.

Currency would be a middleman. If it's programmed that that is what those buildings use to assist players in tradeing with each other, then it has whatever value that players assign to it.

I really don't know why I keep explaining things over and over again since no one reads my posts. They just see currency and think "BAD!!!!!1111!!!!"

[Jadzia]

@MrDDT

Yes, you seem to be missing my point. Perhaps its my fault so I try to make it more clear.

When I want to buy something ( a crafted item that my tribe can't craft due to the lack of recipe ) that can arise the following problems:

1. The price is 1 item, which neither me nor my tribe own, and can't craft it. So I can't pay. If I had money I could buy it, now I can't. This hugely limits the trading opportunities for crafters.

2. The price is something that requires say 10 fully loaded players to be carried to the seller.
In this case I kind of like your idea about hireing people. But it raises the same problem again....how to pay for them ? To own the items 10 different person wants is even more unlikely. To pay them with resources will force me to hire other players....lol see the cycle ? Not to mention that I really doubt I could find 10 players who were willing to run for 10 hours (remember, they are fully loaded so move like slow motion) without global chat. And if I could, it would costs a LOT. Plus I need to trust these people since I'll give them a big amount of valuable items...ah its hopeless. So again, it would make trading with far away sellers kinda impossible.

I think and I hope that there will be rare recipe books. If a crafter learns a rare recipe he would be very stupid to teach it to others. Perhaps to his friends and tribemates yes....but I'm sure he wouldn't teach it to other tribes. Why would he, he would lose a good trading opportunity then. So I think different tribes will have different rare crafting recipes.

Trading through mailboxes is an awful system, I hope you were joking when you compared it to having currency system.

You are right, the game is meant to be fun. But where is the fun if I want to buy something but can't ? Or where is the fun when I have to beg my tribemates to run for 10 hours only to help me pay for a pretty dress ? I would never ask them for that, even if they were willing.

If we had currency in game, players who like barter trading can still use it, players who like to pay with money can use that option. More choices are better IMO.

[MrDDT]

Well even using currency, the price of your dress would be like 1 billion $ which would = the same price of hiring all those 10 people plus the price of whatever heavy resource. If not you wouldnt say yes to it.

So Im missing your point. So are you saying now that all items should be easy to trade too? Because if I want 10000 tons of iron, and the trader wanted to buy it for 1 gold. What do we do now? How is he going to get all that iron?

Thats what you are saying with the dress. He has a rare item thats worth a lot, but you cant trade him because your items are heavy.

Sounds me what you need to do is either forget about this overpriced dress (because you dont think its worth 10 trips of people as you just stated) or you need to start making better friends, and contacts with people that do trade.

Paying the 10 people to carry it for you, well thats their business. I have no idea what they will want. Maybe food, or maybe 10% of the goods being carried. I have no idea, but you can work something out with them assuming that all tribes are not able to have all resources (limited resources like I said 100 times).

Dunno about you but I would teach rare stuff to my tribe members but thats just me. Because Im more of a tribe member that helps its members and not a tribe of solo people.

The vault/mailbox system was in response to making trading easy. If you want easy, why not start putting these options in too. They wouldnt hurt the econ according to you. Just as light weight money system wouldnt. (According to you).

You are trading for something that you either do or dont think is worth 10 trips, the money is not the factor here, the price of it is. Sounds like you dont agree on the price not the fact of the money.

[mrcalhou]

The vault/mailbox system was in response to making trading easy. If you want easy, why not start putting these options in too. They wouldnt hurt the econ according to you. Just as light weight money system wouldnt. (According to you).

Thanks. You proved my last two sentences to be true.

[MrDDT]

Im saying the same thing again to you.

Currency cant have a value to players unless it has a use. The use would have to come from the devs in a system. Limiting players choices and actions when they do this. Barter wouldnt. Players would choose their own value for each item.

Some tribes would value iron much higher than leather. While others would want bones over timber. It you put a gold value on stuff, then the devs are setting it. If you put gold into the game with no uses, then no one would use it.

Tell me why would I want your gold? If all gold was the middle man?

Say I have leather you want. Why would I want your gold? Other than to be able to use it to trade others. I already have items to trade others. (Leather) I dont even know what these other tribes and players would value your gold at because it has no value or use.

[mrcalhou]

Im saying the same thing again to you.

'kay

Currency cant have a value to players unless it has a use. The use would have to come from the devs in a system.

I see nothing wrong with that.

Limiting players choices and actions when they do this. Barter wouldnt. Players would choose their own value for each item.

Players would still be choosing their values, I don't see it as limiting choices, and I said a hundred-thousand times that it wouldn't elimante bartering and item-for-item tradeing. It would be an addition to it.

Some tribes would value iron much higher than leather. While others would want bones over timber. It you put a gold value on stuff, then the devs are setting it.

The devs don't have to place a currency value on gatherable resources. Even if they did, the actual going prices would be greater than or less than that based on the scarcity of the particular resources. Still, there's no reason that in this system the devs would have to put a price on resources or even buy and sell resources from players.

If you put gold into the game with no uses, then no one would use it.

It WOULD have a use.

Tell me why would I want your gold? If all gold was the middle man?

Say I have leather you want. Why would I want your gold? Other than to be able to use it to trade others. I already have items to trade others. (Leather) I dont even know what these other tribes and players would value your gold at because it has no value or use.

Then trade your items if you wish. Otherwise,

Step 1: Go to place that lets you buy or sell goods and resources.
Step 2: Open interface.
Step 3: Look at prices.
Step 4a: Gasp in horror that prices are outrageous.
Step 5a: Close interface.
Step 6a: Go elsewhere.
or
Step 4b: Think that price is reasonable.
Step 5b: Purchase item.
Step 6b: Close interface.
Step 7: Enjoy your purchase.

[MrDDT]

Step 1: Go to place that lets you buy or sell goods and resources.
Step 2: Open interface.
Step 3: Look at prices.
Step 4a: Gasp in horror that prices are outrageous.
Step 5a: Close interface.
Step 6a: Go elsewhere.
or
Step 4b: Think that price is reasonable.
Step 5b: Purchase item.
Step 6b: Close interface.
Step 7: Enjoy your purchase.

Little confused here. Who would be posting these items? Also would they have to restock the item themself at that location? How is that location safe? If I raid that city can I take the item? Can I get it when the player is offline? How does it fit in there? Can I be accessed anywhere? Is there a cost to this trading system?

Thats just a few questions based on what the heck you just said. Which still you DIDNT answer my question.

Tell me why would I want your gold? If all gold was the middle man?

Say I have leather you want. Why would I want your gold? Other than to be able to use it to trade others. I already have items to trade others. (Leather) I dont even know what these other tribes and players would value your gold at because it has no value or use.

Im not even going into the other things you listed because you havnt said how that works or defeated what I said.

[mrcalhou]

Little confused here. Who would be posting these items?

Obviously the person that is selling the item would post it.

Also would they have to restock the item themself at that location?

Yes, the player would have to restock it--Are items infinite?

How is that location safe? If I raid that city can I take the item?

If I was designing the game, I would design it so that there was a progressive series of safe areas with areas becoming less and less safe as you move out. So the newbies have a place to get acclimated to the game without being ganked all the time, and the people that just don't want to PvP don't have to. I've seen it work in other games, and I've seen games suffer because of a lack of it. However, yes, if you put it in a place that isn't safe, then it should be able to be taken. As Jadzia pointed out many times, we effectively have carry limits, so this would be no different than using any storage in those areas. However the building should be destroyed first. For balance reasons, players shouldn't be able to just five-finger discount it.

Can I get it when the player is offline?

If you would have read my posts, you would have noticed that I had mention that this reason, among reasons similiar to it, were the number one reason I want this in the game.

How does it fit in there?

Magic... Honestly, is this even one of your concerns?

Can I be accessed anywhere?

I /facepalmed so hard I think I bruised my head. I only said NO in practically every post that responded to yours. Seriously, it's like you don't even read.

Is there a cost to this trading system?

Yes. I would incorporate a tax to offset it being an easier way to conduct trades, plus having taxes could have other benefits depending on how it was incorporated. I think that there should be trade-offs for damn near everything. Currency systems would be easier and quicker, so it should cost a little bit more. Item-for-item takes more time and could be cumbersome, but you would end up paying less or getting more most times.

Thats just a few questions based on what the heck you just said. Which still you DIDNT answer my question.

Tell me why would I want your gold? If all gold was the middle man?

Because it makes tradeing more convenient. If you don't want to use it then don't. It wouldn't be forcing you.

Say I have leather you want. Why would I want your gold? Other than to be able to use it to trade others. I already have items to trade others. (Leather) I dont even know what these other tribes and players would value your gold at because it has no value or use.

It would have whatever value the player-base thinks it should have. Just like any resource. Economies usually end up being self-regulating. This isn't a game where items are limited and you get epic-lootz from doing multiple boss runs until everyone in your guild has the amazing purple hammer of epic amazingness.

Im not even going into the other things you listed because you havnt said how that works or defeated what I said.

I lol'd

[Shrimps]

Unless the devs put a restriction into the game which forces you to use a form of currency such as npc's there will be no one who will use it since it serves no purpose whatsoever. Would I rather have some useless paper that people may or may not accept or would I rather have that shiny axe? hmmm yeah the axe.

I honestly love the way Metro 2033 handled currency. Money was bullets since that was all they valued in the apocalypse. It makes sense and it becomes a type of dilema, would you rather shoot your money or save it? haha. I mean what would people rather have something they can use or something useless?

I for one can tell you that unless a system is implemented that explicitly forces us to use a form of predetermined curerency then I will not accept it.

[MrDDT]

Blah

No offense, but it still has so many holes I cant even start to ask them. Plus you still havnt answered the 1 question I asked before all those easy ones.

Why would I trade something for something that has no value to anyone?

Shrimps. I love the bullets thing. Im sure it will be high on the trading list once they are in the game.