Non Violent forms of PVP

[Redemp]

actually i don't think i've made any of your points.
1. I haven't asked for anything. I've merely supported what the developers have already stated is coming, and further nodded in understanding about the current state of combat mechanics (fubar).

So harvesting trees not in my immediate vicinity is 'griefing'?

Gathering trash outside of my immediate vicinity is 'griefing'?

Which was in response to this :

1. Eco Terrorism - Cut down and haul off all the trees surrounding the enemy.

2. Totem Terrorism - Accept all the quests on the totem pole.

3. Homestead Terrorism - Use multiple homesteads to surround and wall in an enemy with terraforming.

Which is griefing, as it serves no purpose other than to piss someone off. You didn't argue that the above wasn't griefing, but you immediately jumped to the wild conclusion that stepping outside of your tribe range and felling a tree was griefing. Hence .. it was trolling, or just a knee-jerk because someone didn't agree with you.

2. I have not insulted anyone, despite insults being thrown in this direction.

Actually i'm not sure what kind of non-consensual hostile action would be tolerated, under any circumstances, by a fair portion of the playerbase. Their definition of griefing is:
Griefing: any action or activity outside of my control, whether or not due to my action or inaction, where the result is anything other than that which is as was planned, anticipated, expected or otherwise desired.
Any activity that does not provide direct benefit to me.

You could have sumed this up with a "Carebear" , its clearly what you were implying.

3. I have made a rational arguement for a style of playing being an integral and logical component of this game.

Rational arguements do not immediately dive into fanatical misinterpretations of one post, clearly illustrating your fear that the "Carebears" are out to get you, and every
other respected pvper.

4. not locked.

In time.

5. has not come to pass.

One of you Vds did in more words.


I like most of you Vd folks, but really stop turning every argument into a "The carebears think we are all griefers" regurgitation. I am a pvper thats all I do, I also understand the need for policies to prevent the few who choose to play purely to piss people off. Which is mainly what the people in this thread have been discussing, before you and others turned into the typical Carebear vs PvPer rhetoric.

[ifireallymust]

From reading this thread its obvious who grew up in UO and who grew up in WoW. Im sorry WoW guys, but if you didnt play UO back in pre 2k your dont have the faintest idea how a playerenforced, free, openended pvp system works. And you obviously fail hardcore at imagining it.

You dont need a ton of rules to prevent people from griefing eachother. With the right tools at their disposal the people will police themselfs. The problem remains though, that these kinda tools require possibilities for harsh penalties, wich instantly makes the nonhardcore players scream in fear.

Ever since the casual crowd who wont commit 20+ hours a week to a game startet playing this genre, it has all gone downhill. The casuals scream, the devs listen and restrict, then the casuals screams some more cause doh, their still getting owned by the hardcores, the devs restrict some more, and on and on and on. Untill we got the WoW themepark parade where everyone runs around in hes own little restrictet instanced bubble. WoW, WAR, AoC, Aion, Rift just off the top of my head.

The point of this post is, stop your fucking whining. If somebody is out there stealing all your resources, deal with it. Kill them, move away, steal it back, be creative, whatever it takes, adapt to the situation and come out on top. For once we have a game where the devs actually have some balls and tries to go with an open environment, if you dont like it, go back to a themepark, stop crying, and stop trying to ruin it for the rest of us.

1. Griefing isn't allowed in this game. The devs go with that, too.

2. I play more than 20 hours a week. I shouldn't, as it tends to cut rather heavily into my sleep time, but I do.

3. I would play a safe zone PKer if permadeath the next time someone or something killed me were the penalty. That would be a challenge. Zerg pvp is not a challenge.

4. I wanted to go to the War server because I wanted to build walls and moats and trenches to keep hostile players out of my homestead area. Those are the type of tools you're talking about, are they not? And I'm all for using them. What I'm not all for is an automatic win for zergs that can knock down any wall, destroy any defense, and pretty much destroy all reason to bother defending oneself at all, since, if superior numbers always win in the end, there's no reason to build any defenses at all, is there? (Okay, maybe just for the fun of seeing how long they last, but how many times will anyone find that amusing before it gets old?).

5. I'm not trying to ruin anything for you. I'm fine with the current pvp mechanics and 6-9 months before they evolve into new ones. No problem at all here. It's not the so-called carebears who keep complaining about safe zones and restrictions on their sand box freedom. It's the pvp crowd. The environment isn't completely open, obviously, or there would be no safe zones. Yet you try to claim it is an open environment. How?

[bruisie159]

Maelwydd,

No offense, but your postings give me the impression of a passive-aggressive sociopath who lets rage at the outside world build up inside him until it boils over in a completely inappropriate (and perhaps shocking) outburst of anger.

although im aware its a bit anal of me i just want to make a point that your example does not describe someone who is being passive aggressive. If the person was being passive aggressive they would simply be refusing to engage with you. Staying quiet, ignoring you that kind of thing.

[Banano]

Don't make the same mistake Rolf did.

[Surly]

That's not mercantilism. That's griefing. And your sig is causing me to lose IQ points, yet I can't stop staring at it!

Mercantilism is real life economic griefing too, then. At least from the perspective of the have-nots.

[ifireallymust]

Your right!

When I kill you I want it to bother you, I want you to get angry, I want you to feel the pain of wastet hours.

What else would the point be?

Explain the point of full loot? Explain the point of cityasset destruction?

Fair enough, and since I'm such a petty, tit for tat person when I'm grouchy over lag, I want the safe zones to stay for a long, long time, so I can stand just inside mine and emote and laugh at you as you prowl about outside in obvious frustration. And if you do something that's obviously griefing, I want to report you and get you banned, because I bet that will really make you mad!

I would say the point of full loot and city asset destruction is tactical, it's a game that can be (very loosely) compared to chess or any other competitive game where taking assets out of the hands of your opponent is a good thing.

When I play chess, I never take a piece to make my opponent mad. I don't even understand why that would ever be a motivation in any game, except as petty revenge such as I described above for behavior meant to make me mad.

I truly don't get why someone would buy a game and play it with one of their primary goals being to piss other people off.

[Kiriath]

1. Griefing isn't allowed in this game. The devs go with that, too.

2. I play more than 20 hours a week. I shouldn't, as it tends to cut rather heavily into my sleep time, but I do.

3. I would play a safe zone PKer if permadeath the next time someone or something killed me were the penalty. That would be a challenge. Zerg pvp is not a challenge.

4. I wanted to go to the War server because I wanted to build walls and moats and trenches to keep hostile players out of my homestead area. Those are the type of tools you're talking about, are they not? And I'm all for using them. What I'm not all for is an automatic win for zergs that can knock down any wall, destroy any defense, and pretty much destroy all reason to bother defending oneself at all, since, if superior numbers always win in the end, there's no reason to build any defenses at all, is there? (Okay, maybe just for the fun of seeing how long they last, but how many times will anyone find that amusing before it gets old?).

5. I'm not trying to ruin anything for you. I'm fine with the current pvp mechanics and 6-9 months before they evolve into new ones. No problem at all here. It's not the so-called carebears who keep complaining about safe zones and restrictions on their sand box freedom. It's the pvp crowd. The environment isn't completely open, obviously, or there would be no safe zones. Yet you try to claim it is an open environment. How?

It remains to be seen how the devs are going to enforce the no griefing policy. Im praying very loosely.

To balance the zerg is a huge task, but one that should be undertaken instead of placing wierd restrictions on who you can or cant siege in my oppinion, its a opportunity for the devs to show some skill.

The guys who reports for someone stealing "hes" resources for example are the ppl I think should go back to their themeparks, since it would simply suit them better.

[Redemp]

Anyone who reports someone for stealing their resources obviously doesn't need to be playing this game. On the other hand, as I gleam from the first post in this thread, any person or group of people who dilberately go to anothers land with the intentions of clear cutting, terraforming, or otherwise destroying their property .... just to piss them off, should be reported.

[ifireallymust]

Mercantilism is real life economic griefing too, then. At least from the perspective of the have-nots.

Oh don't be silly. There are greedy, sadistic scum who will kill and harm others to have the power and resources they crave and who will also enjoy the pain they cause others for its own sake, and there are also greedy scum who will kill and harm others to have the power and resources they crave but will take no enjoyment from the pain they cause others, rather, they will either justify it to themselves and others as necessary, or good in the long run, or better than it was before, or they will simply dismiss it as unimportant compared to their own wants and needs.

[Kiriath]

Fair enough, and since I'm such a petty, tit for tat person when I'm grouchy over lag, I want the safe zones to stay for a long, long time, so I can stand just inside mine and emote and laugh at you as you prowl about outside in obvious frustration. And if you do something that's obviously griefing, I want to report you and get you banned, because I bet that will really make you mad!

I would say the point of full loot and city asset destruction is tactical, it's a game that can be (very loosely) compared to chess or any other competitive game where taking assets out of the hands of your opponent is a good thing.

When I play chess, I never take a piece to make my opponent mad. I don't even understand why that would ever be a motivation in any game, except as petty revenge such as I described above for behavior meant to make me mad.

I truly don't get why someone would buy a game and play it with one of their primary goals being to piss other people off.

The report game is taking it to a whole new lvl, once it startet its just another form of pvp. But since it effectively ends the game for the loser, I dont like playing it. Of couse it is the ultimate form of griefing, so its not 100% out of the question if ppl just ask enough for it (ie start it themselfs).

If you were any good at chess you would know that if it pissed your opponent off if you took one of hes pieces, it would be a very smart thing to do. This is pretty obvious in a game of poker too btw.

I guess it all comes down to why you play.

Ps. im up for a game of chess if you like, I got an account on chess.com