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  1. #91
    Now i,m sorry I even posted this...

  2. #92
    *Personal feelings crit you for 99999."

    Come on guys, I thought I had some good suggestions about 5 pages ago.

  3. #93
    Agreed, could we get a mod to clean up half of this shit and leave in the constructive stuff...

  4. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by JCatano View Post
    Fact?

    Anyway... It was more than a "few". The subject has been brought up in random threads a number of times.

    Nix the Hiding skill Xsyon. It's dumb. Let us use some actual smarts for sneaking around. I've never played a game with stealthers where people don't complain about them. I played a few Infs in DAoC, so I'm quite aware of the hate-posts.
    I guess alot and a few are subjective.

    The problem with using "Player Skill" is that it's a game played on a computer...where the only skill is mashing buttons while watching a screen. Third person overhead view diminishes or eliminates any skill a person would actuallt have.

    I served in VN with Marine Recon where we did use real personal skills, but it's impossible to translate those skills to a video game. Ghillie suits dont work in video games because of things like gama adjustments and meshes.

    I guess we're just gonna have to agree to disagree. So I say keep hiding it as it is.

  5. #95
    Xsyon Citizen Kitsume's Avatar
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    Deacon, thank you for your service.

    I'm going to discuss game design aspects of the Player vs Character skill with viewpoints from different sides. I'm not saying either are good or bad here, just presenting some information and viewpoints.

    Player skills are the skills of the person sitting at the keyboard. The player learns how to use the controls to manipulate the character actions through practice and experience. The only chance involved are the player's innate ability to line up the pixels on the screen and use the correct controls at the right time. The Character in a player skill based game does not grow, except for access to more powerful weapons. Games that use solely player skills are mainly FPS games with out skills or player levels. Examples are Half-Life 2, WWII Online, Prey, Assassin's Creed, etc.

    Character Skills add development to the character, allowing for the character's growth. Levels of skill and character are introduced, which allow improvement upon the character. The skills selected and raised affect the effectiveness of the character. With levels, degrees of randomness can be introduced, or increased accuracy in use of the skills. Skills can simulate the randomness that happens in life, where the character does not have complete control over the environment around them. Primarily skill based games use character skill to perform actions, based on the player's input, some to the point of automating certain actions. Games where combat is more automated (auto-attack), with the addition of special moves appeal to people who are not button mashers or lack the aptitude to play FPS style games. SW:KotOR, STO, and Eve are a couple examples of a skill based game.

    Some games take a hybrid approach, combining both player skill and character skills in their design. The player has to keep the target in the sights of the weapon, but there is an element of chance of hitting or missing depending on your character's skill. Or they might use different complexity of mini-game to simulate non-combat skill actions. Fallout 3, Mass Effect, and MO come to mind as examples of Hybrids. (BTW I'm not saying MO is good, it just seems to be a hybrid style)

    Xsyon seems to be taking the Hybrid approach on the active style skills. The player has to know what they are doing, and be on target, but there is still a chance for hit or miss. The character develops through the skills used and targeted for improvement. The character is not a direct extension of the player, but something that is growing and developing while the player plays the game.

    Everyone has a play style they prefer, that is why there are there are so many games with different takes on the player vs character skill equation.

    What does this have to do with macroing? If it runs on a computer, no matter what style of game, someone is going to find a way to automate tasks. Developers should not give up in detecting, testing and punishing players who use automation while they are away from the keyboard. AFK macros and bots do give an unfair advantage to those players who do use them. There are several ways of detecting possible users of AFK bots and scripted macros, it just takes the effort to use them.

    That is enough of a text wall for now

  6. #96
    Oh what a fun topic.

    One, if mini-games are implemented, I'd prefer for them to be optional. If someone wants to play them, that's great. Personally I'd rather not.

    Two, for the most part, macro'ing doesn't bother me one way or another. Personally I don't use them (mainly due to laziness on not wanting to bother learning how to write them and too cheap to buy a "fancy" keyboard or mouse ). One nice thing about afk-macroer's skilling up magic in DFO is they are a good source of regs for raiders . And I'd love to have some way to automate me hauling these blasted logs from where the fell on the ground to back to my tribal area (or a wheelbarrow or something for crying out loud). As for using macro's for skilling up, I am torn. I can understand that if a person with a busy life can only play an hour or two a day versus those that would be playing all day wanted to afk macro up a skill while he was at work or asleep, because to me that isn't getting an edge over someone, that's just trying to keep up with everyone else's skill level plus trying to spend what available time they have actually playing the game and not grinding up skills. On the other hand, I am not thrilled about someone who is playing 6-8 hours a day then spends all their afk time macro'ing. And I am totally against any macro's that are used for looting, combat, or gold farming.

    All in all, I'd prefer that macroing just isn't allowed in a game , and that said game is designed such that there is no repetitive monotonous actions that would make one desire to either create a macro or shoot the monitor with a shotgun. As I am not a developer, programmer, or macroer I unfortunately have no good ideas on how to implement any anti-macroing designs (either by the way of detecting macros or by making them unnecessary or unusable) but as a gamer, i am more than capable of finding out what tasks are driving me crazy. ATM, it's log hauling walking for ever, stopping several times to catch my breath, just to drop off a log and repeat.... WTB a wheel barrow, cart, duece and a half, whatever... Or a 'built-in-the-game' macro that will allow me to record these actions. prefereably a team of horses thought o pull a lot of logs at once..

  7. #97
    You people are worse than old ladys if you wanan fight take it to PM and get off my thread...

  8. #98
    The reason macroing bothers me it give unfairs advantage over a player and its cheating no matter how u look at it, if macroing is good then so ar aim bots and combat macros..... I have seen to many ganes ruined since AC, DFO, WOW, Aion, MO, DT, ETC, ruined by cheaters and macro's..


    So this is the reason for this its sad we can't gte people to agree on this as this tells me the ganing world is ruined and people wanna cheat because they are lazy and just plain suck.. Thats my 2 cents.

    To others keep it on topic keep the idea rolling , Xyson devs need to repond as this is a big deal .... I like there input and I like to know what are there plans for this..

  9. #99
    Xsyon Citizen Gamefreak's Avatar
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    Macros don't really give that big of an advantage to the player. Morigen is sort of right with that part. You can bet that if macroing is going to be as easy to do now as it is in release, that mostly everyone is going to be doing it. Therefore the people who can dedicate more time actually playing the game are still going to be "better" than the people who do not.

    It's like steroids in bodybuilding competitions, no one admits to taking them, but everyone does. This is unfortunate, having to macro to even compete with people who spend hours on the game. I think the game should be built in a way where grinding 24/7 doesn't result in you automatically being the best player. I also agree with Morigen on the fact that these monotonous tasks do make me want to stomp on my laptop.

  10. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Deacon View Post
    I guess alot and a few are subjective.

    The problem with using "Player Skill" is that it's a game played on a computer...where the only skill is mashing buttons while watching a screen. Third person overhead view diminishes or eliminates any skill a person would actuallt have.

    I served in VN with Marine Recon where we did use real personal skills, but it's impossible to translate those skills to a video game. Ghillie suits dont work in video games because of things like gama adjustments and meshes.

    I guess we're just gonna have to agree to disagree. So I say keep hiding it as it is.
    Many people had day/night armors in DAoC.

    Bone armor (beige/brown) works great in Darkfall for many, many areas if you're just trying to blend in. Once dyes are implemented in DF, you're going to see everyone with terrain specific gear.

    It's definitely, and already, possible.

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