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  1. #11
    I dont see how you got from what I wrote that you are limited in choice at all.

    Let me make it super clear. You can make everything, be everything, and do everything. But its going to be harder.

    Explain to me why I would want to trade anything with you, if I can do it myself just as well?
    The one thing your point does have is that maybe regional resources. But you didnt even list that.

    More players would help yes, both sides of the coin it would help. But again why would someone want to train up skills to do something when they will just be a clone of someone else? They wouldnt have any nitch.
    There is already a small safe zone (many of them also), that no one uses. There is no need, everyone has everything, can make everything and wants for nothing.
    Lastly your point about making "super" armor is a joke at best (haha) because I bet you will not find 1 person in supreme armor. Not even 1 piece of it. Just FYI because I know you are only like 5 days into playing this game. Supreme is the highest level you can make of an item (or get). So you saying its not hard because you have the "tools" is pretty funny.

    I understand you want to play the game how you want to play it. Great. But coming in here tossing out incorrect facts, and bad data, isnt good for supporting it.
    On top of that, Devs already said the game will have (and has) as soft cap. Which is what most people want. He also said that if you want to strike it up alone solo style, you can it will just be harder.

    Ive been giving you info and advice in game. So I know you are very new to the game. But really, you CAN do everything currently in game. Even after softcaps you will too. It will just be harder. Which is how most people and this game is meant to be played.

    Keep trying to get it changed maybe devs will take your opinions into view, but at least support them with data that's true, and maybe play the game a bit more first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Book View Post
    Not sure I would really mind a game where it's none of my business if someone else wants to put in the time to max everything. What's it to me?
    I think that's the gist of Wolf's post... there's no intention of forcing YOU to max everything, because frankly as long as you're not actively hurting the game, who in their right mind could be bothered to care how you want to play it?

    Mind you, it's been said in one of the dev's posts that their intention is to allow homesteaders to be proficient enough at anything they need/want to be able to live a peaceful and productive life if that's their choosing. They just won't be able to make the highest quality if they choose to do it all themselves.

    Homesteader doesn't necessarily mean hermit by a long shot. Having friendly neighbors for a good barn raising can be a great thing.


    Certainly you're not just posting to "get" people under the guise of wanting to help the game. If so, get help.

    It does hurt the game. When people can be masters of everything, then why would others want to trade? If I have no needs or wants. Why would there be trade? I can do everything, I can get everything, I can make everything. Why would I trade?
    That's how it hurts the game.

    Me calling him an extremist is what he said himself in game. He wants to do everything without any help (well he does take advice) from in game. He couldnt make a crafting knife in game so he rerolled to get one. That's just one of the few things he did. Even though he was 5 feet from a crafting knife.
    Im not downing him by calling him an extremist. He wants to do it that way. I say great more power to him. But saying that soft caps hurt trade, and make this a "class" based game. Clearly is not true.

  2. #12
    "Let me make it super clear. You can make everything, be everything, and do everything. But its going to be harder."

    could care less if its harder.. it should be. as it is it IS harder. considering you have to raise up all the skills. (doubt anyone has done that yet) and if they have then the game is too easy. The answer isn't a cap its to make getting XP harder.

    In big bold letters.. "TRADE NEEDS PEOPLE" and thats one thing this game does not have right now. A skill cap would do nothing about trade.. It would actually make it impossible for anyone to make anything. Depending on how a skill cap would be implemented. 1skill 2skill or 5.. doesn't matter. capping skills will never be the answer to any problem.

    If you think im full of it go take a look at a couple of the most popular sandbox games on the market.. Wurm online . and runescape.

    Nether of them have any caps and they pull in subscribers like honey does bees.

    Then again.. This never was about trade..

  3. #13
    Wolfgar,

    A soft cap won't be as bad as you think as you will realize when you figure out how crafting works.

    Here's Jooky's description on how crafting works:

    -Crafting revisions.
    Crafted quality and duration are based on:
    Materials used.
    Player craft skill and associated stats.
    Tools used.
    Forager and Scrapper tools add to duration.
    Trapper and Pioneer tools add to quality.
    Luck.

    You can make master quality items without every input at master level. For example, I've made master level weapons starting when my weapon crafting skill was level 89. I used VHQ pioneer tools and a mix of master and VHQ materials. The resulting durability wasn't high, but weapons don't wear out that fast if you don't use them to chop down trees. You can make VHQ items like straps with a tailoring or leather craft skill in the 50's.

    Lets say we are both trying to make knives using a pattern that requires leather straps. We both have the same high scavenging, weapon crafting and wood crafting skills (you don't get high weapon crafting with out high scavenging and wood crafting) and moderate leather crafting. After an hour or so scavenging we both have four master quality knife blades. You are using VHQ straps you made and I had a tribe mate make me some master quality straps. After 4 attempts, you end up with 3 VHQ and one master quality combat knives. I end up with 4 master level knives.

    Since you don't want to trade, you have the only knife you need. I have one I can use and three to trade.

    Of course, you won't need to grind weapon crafting since you can scavenge good weapons long before you can make them, but that doesn't have anything to do with soft caps.

  4. #14
    can someone please explain level cap and soft cap.When people say skill cap what do you mean cap it at 50,60.70 ? Same with soft cap I feel dumb not knowing never really paided much notice to those things.

    But there are diff levels of Quality that come into play when crafting each level like High Very High and master has another level of Quality with in its own level.Not all master saws you find or master

    cloth scrap are going to be the same even if they are both master.Plus your skill lev at that skill will matter as well. that master level weapon Thurgon made at lev 89 is not going to be as good as mine I made at lev 98 plus the tools I might have used at lev 100.The master stuff you make at lower levs does not mean there the same at 100.

    Who would you rather trade with someone who can make you a master Hammer at 100 tools or the guy that can inch one out at 85

    Like someone said it hard enough getting skills to 100 and if you can then you have earned that skill.I agree with Mr.DDt just turn the skill decay on and if you want to keep that skill at 100 you need to work to keep it.But when should it decay is what I want to know.Lets say I have to make a trip to another State for a couple of months (sometimes i do) is my 100 going to be 70 when i get back?

    Or should it Just decay when your online.

  5. #15
    A level cap would limit the number of times your exp bar would fill up and get the bonus points as well as the number of hit point upgrades associated with a level up.
    A soft cap or skills would be, or i believe should be, for two groups of skills: combat/and everything else. What a soft cap does is at some point, say an arbitrary number of 300 skill points, it becomes increasingly difficult to grind the next skill point earned in that group of skills. And coupled with skill decay it becomes very difficult to maintain/increase skills.

    I think if you let everyone master everything, there is less reason to interact with people which is where the fun of mmos is driven from. I suppose you could just vastly limit the number of resources available and get the same result because not everyone would have everything they need to master everything. But its just easier, and probably better for the game, to limit the number of skills a person can master, or alternatively spread the points out and be just good enough in all skills to make some stuff.

  6. #16
    Ok i get it but I dont think you should put a lev cap on people that makes the game very and your toon very limited.Thats what i like about games like this I love to keep growing my toon.Games that have level caps even if I love the game like Fallen earth as soon as I hit that max level Im bored and dont want to play it because I know Im not going to keep growing.

    The crafting system is a lot more deep then people think.Like I said there diff levs of Quality even in there own Level then you have level of tools used? Then what was the stats of the person who made that stuff if you know what I have learned from crafting you would see its pretty deep and putting caps on people you will never get to the point of making supreme stuff.BTW I have found out how to do it and level caps would make it next to imposible.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Vandal View Post
    About this subject, I think that 100 should be what anyone can aim for and work for.
    It is by default, the maximum level a skill can get without specializing into it.

    So everyone can get 100 into anything.
    Although, if you want to be able to reach the "something special" that this skill/craft has to offer, you need to get more pro-efficiency with it.

    Having a skill cap, makes it that people have to work less. Play less. They won't grind every skills possible, why? Because they will decay, so why spend the time to do so?
    Allowing every skills to 100 will keep players playing. So instead of making stuff go backwards, why don't we make it harder to go forward? And therefore invite players to reward for higher rewards. I have many Lv. 100 crafts right now, most of which I wouldn't keep if I had to choose, so they are all going to go to waste eventually and that's a shame.

    Why not make it harder for me to learn a new recipe, a great recipe that would take me much, much more time invested into a particular trade, instead of making lose all that I've actually worked for.
    I agree. Make a hardcap and make skills to be much harder to cap. If a player can reach lvl 100 in a week then no doubt everyone will have everything. Make it so that reaching 100 takes a year, and the problem is eliminated.

    Skilling up is way too fast in the game. Lower level recipes are worth nothing since everyone can make high lvl ones in like 2-3 days.
    Make recipes way more rare and we will have an economy and won't need skill decay.

  8. #18
    IMO, a system using vandal and jad's ideas would be ok, if done well. I really do not care for the skill decay system, with the way hit points are done.

  9. #19
    Xsyon Citizen VeryWiiTee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vandal View Post
    Getting 100 in a craft is already tedious enough. No one in their right mind would grind up to 100 just to stack up on some mats and let it decay, that makes no sense.

    I still believe it would be better to leave things as they are and increase it from the top end instead of trying to lower it down to the bottom end.
    But in order to do so, they would need to work more on increasing the current crafts we have and give it something more. Something worth going for.

    I hate to take WoW as an example, but in all the craft we have available, you could take 2 or 3 as a speciality and gain access to more stuff from those crafts. And since those items are going to be much better than any other non-specialty items, that's what people will want to trade for. And those that don't have the time, or patience to increase those crafts to 100 to get the "default" stuff, they can still trade.
    Why should I pick specials.. I want to just craft and at some point being told I just advanced to Epic Tailor, and I want to have it decay as normal. No choosing.. Crafting should be the choice. Other than that, nah. In all, special items should be made from special resources that you can find. It shouldn't require more than a swap of item stack. Normal stack with a Rare stack. Leave the complicated specializations for now.

    And oh I wouldn't mind and I am in my right mind. It is called patience .

    Keep the hard cap out, soft caps are good. Hard caps are bad.
    - In the real world you can still gain new knowledge even though your brain is filled (you just need to archive something first). It'll take you a lot longer learning the new stuff. Soft cap.
    - In the real world you can't gain new knowledge and have to dump something else. You choose to dump cleaning and now you can proceed with Cooking. Hard cap. Not all that realistic.

    As much as I was a fan of EQ advancement level which was effing slow at the release and the first few expansion packs.. You might want to consider that people have lives outside of this game too..
    1 week is for the hardcore grinder (and they can probably do it even faster) it also depends on the skill and how good your spirit is (maybe intelligence).
    If it takes a standard player 3 weeks, it would take them 3 years getting a skill to 100.. You wouldn't find any player left playing this game

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by wolfgar View Post
    "Let me make it super clear. You can make everything, be everything, and do everything. But its going to be harder."

    could care less if its harder.. it should be. as it is it IS harder. considering you have to raise up all the skills. (doubt anyone has done that yet) and if they have then the game is too easy. The answer isn't a cap its to make getting XP harder.

    In big bold letters.. "TRADE NEEDS PEOPLE" and thats one thing this game does not have right now. A skill cap would do nothing about trade.. It would actually make it impossible for anyone to make anything. Depending on how a skill cap would be implemented. 1skill 2skill or 5.. doesn't matter. capping skills will never be the answer to any problem.

    If you think im full of it go take a look at a couple of the most popular sandbox games on the market.. Wurm online . and runescape.

    Nether of them have any caps and they pull in subscribers like honey does bees.

    Then again.. This never was about trade..

    Wolfgar, your theory is wrong. First off trade needing people is correct. Both softcap and no cap needs people to trade. So that point is moot.
    Now you saying that no cap pulls in tons of people.
    Guess what, currently you can learn every skill in the game to 100. Jordi says there is a cap, but Ive yet to see it Im over 1700 skill points as of today. So where are all the people if that's the case?

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