Combat on hold...and give us REASONS...

[aliksteel]

That would be cool to see, A firefighter piloting a jet, And at the same time he is preforming neurosurgery.

That my friends, Would be Da Man!!!

[fatboy21007]

i got a solution! its shity, down rite sucks. But noside can complain! 2 servers. 1 for pve carebears 2nd for pvp epeens. Poof u can setup up both servers to suit the players their better.yes things may take a tad long but in the long run when things are fixed and more is added this could take off or it could just die off as its always done. Ethier way having 2 servers is win for them all. and dont say blah blah we only need one. Group A and B dont want o coexist. spliting them up to give both sides what they want will only help the game grow

. if u try n force a peace between the 2 in this type of game, just wont happen 1 side will leave. with 2 servers some may leave but in the long run more will stay n hell more may return (depending on whats added) Personally the 2 server idea i heard at launch should have happend. None of these damn issues would have came up (debates) then pvp wouldnt have safezones n everything attackable n get their way while pve get safe zones and all that fun stuff. Dont give me this we dont need to split the pop because their isnt 1 crap ethier. This type of game demands 2 servers, its the only way both sides will stick around for the long haul. Hell setup a pvp fourm section and pve. Im aware their is very few devs, but atleast they will get good feedback and dont have to here people bickering. this is WIN. And if you cant even agree with this then you will never agree on anything! Now if ull excuse me ima go pray to the tree gods for sum trees and hope they are dont hating me.

[Dubanka]

i got a solution! its shity, down rite sucks. But noside can complain! 2 servers. 1 for pve carebears 2nd for pvp epeens. Poof u can setup up both servers to suit the players their better.yes things may take a tad long but in the long run when things are fixed and more is added this could take off or it could just die off as its always done. Ethier way having 2 servers is win for them all. and dont say blah blah we only need one. Group A and B dont want o coexist. spliting them up to give both sides what they want will only help the game grow

. if u try n force a peace between the 2 in this type of game, just wont happen 1 side will leave. with 2 servers some may leave but in the long run more will stay n hell more may return (depending on whats added) Personally the 2 server idea i heard at launch should have happend. None of these damn issues would have came up (debates) then pvp wouldnt have safezones n everything attackable n get their way while pve get safe zones and all that fun stuff. Dont give me this we dont need to split the pop because their isnt 1 crap ethier. This type of game demands 2 servers, its the only way both sides will stick around for the long haul. Hell setup a pvp fourm section and pve. Im aware their is very few devs, but atleast they will get good feedback and dont have to here people bickering. this is WIN. And if you cant even agree with this then you will never agree on anything! Now if ull excuse me ima go pray to the tree gods for sum trees and hope they are dont hating me.

it might have worked on release, but with the pop the way it is...wouldnt work now.
Honestly, at this point, they'd be better off trying to channel their inner carebear and uphold the needs and wants of jadzia and co...mud hut sim 4tw, pvp as afterthough. most of the pvprs have left the building and even ddt has to know that his situation is kinda tenuous.

build the game for the careabears, so at least it will serve as a warning to other devs who ponder which path to choose...and we can just point at the smoking crater that was xsyon.

[Jadzia]

I agree fatboy, this kind of game requires 2 type of servers. But this thread is not about PvP/-non-PvP...its about giving purpose to items and buildings. That is required for every type of gameplay so why DDT turns this thread into a PvP-antiPvP one is beyond me.

Let's get back ontopic ? I suggest everyone to read the OP.

[Dubanka]

I agree fatboy, this kind of game requires 2 type of servers. But this thread is not about PvP/-non-PvP...its about giving purpose to items and buildings. That is required for every type of gameplay so why DDT turns this thread into a PvP-antiPvP one is beyond me.

Let's get back ontopic ? I suggest everyone to read the OP.

wow, you really cant see the forest through the trees.

what defines purpose for items and building? Use? Necessity? Scarcity? Utility?

how do you attribute value to weapons, armor, defensive architecture structures without a purposeful pvp system?

why do you need to even have pvp if you don't need to pvp to actually do anything? You don't need to control territory to harvest resources (so why pvp, why make armor and weapons to pvp, why fortifiy your towns so you can have a reasonable safe hovel to base your actions out of? 80% of the crafting in this game is tied to some type purpose that is defined by player conflict. weapons, armor, leather, tailor, even grass, a lot of architecture, most of the middle man skills...they all tie into a PURPOSE of being used for player conflict...ie. making items whose purpose is directly related to combat.

BUT...a player is not forced to fight for anything, so a player doesnt really need any that stuff...consequently, the value of 80% of the crafting line is negligible because THERE IS NO POINT TO MAKING OR USING IT.

so yeah, sorry, the situation surround player conflict is directly related to the game having a point and a purpose...and well, making it a game and not a sim.

[MrDDT]

I agree fatboy, this kind of game requires 2 type of servers. But this thread is not about PvP/-non-PvP...its about giving purpose to items and buildings. That is required for every type of gameplay so why DDT turns this thread into a PvP-antiPvP one is beyond me.

Let's get back ontopic ? I suggest everyone to read the OP.

I am posting about the topic, because I believe PVP will make things useful. Ive already shown that, explained that and proven that. As have others.
Is PVP the only way to do this? No of course not. You can have NPC raiding towns, you can make it so that weather effects players more, you can make it so that when you are outside your walls you are being attacked a lot more by HARDER monsters, you can make it so that you have to explore to find useful powerful items.

Many ways you can do it. However, PVPers have been saying this since the start of the game. Carebears were telling us, no no no they wont get bored this is what they want. Now you see what you have done, but you wont take the fault for it. So you STILL wont listen to the voices of reason. We saw this coming, we predicted this.

wow, you really cant see the forest through the trees.

what defines purpose for items and building? Use? Necessity? Scarcity? Utility?

how do you attribute value to weapons, armor, defensive architecture structures without a purposeful pvp system?

why do you need to even have pvp if you don't need to pvp to actually do anything? You don't need to control territory to harvest resources (so why pvp, why make armor and weapons to pvp, why fortifiy your towns so you can have a reasonable safe hovel to base your actions out of? 80% of the crafting in this game is tied to some type purpose that is defined by player conflict. weapons, armor, leather, tailor, even grass, a lot of architecture, most of the middle man skills...they all tie into a PURPOSE of being used for player conflict...ie. making items whose purpose is directly related to combat.

BUT...a player is not forced to fight for anything, so a player doesnt really need any that stuff...consequently, the value of 80% of the crafting line is negligible because THERE IS NO POINT TO MAKING OR USING IT.

so yeah, sorry, the situation surround player conflict is directly related to the game having a point and a purpose...and well, making it a game and not a sim.

Dub, I agree that PVP will make all those things have purpose and I agree it is needed. However, I think there are many ways to go about it. I want what Jordi said. Contested RARE resources that people can fight for. Allow in those areas totems to be taken and fought over. Some system should be put into place for it.

This game is a sim, thats what the carebears did to it with all their crying about safe zones, anti pvp crap. This game needs strife. I can think of 100s of ways to do that.

[Jadzia]

wow, you really cant see the forest through the trees.

what defines purpose for items and building? Use? Necessity? Scarcity? Utility?

how do you attribute value to weapons, armor, defensive architecture structures without a purposeful pvp system?

why do you need to even have pvp if you don't need to pvp to actually do anything? You don't need to control territory to harvest resources (so why pvp, why make armor and weapons to pvp, why fortifiy your towns so you can have a reasonable safe hovel to base your actions out of? 80% of the crafting in this game is tied to some type purpose that is defined by player conflict. weapons, armor, leather, tailor, even grass, a lot of architecture, most of the middle man skills...they all tie into a PURPOSE of being used for player conflict...ie. making items whose purpose is directly related to combat.

BUT...a player is not forced to fight for anything, so a player doesnt really need any that stuff...consequently, the value of 80% of the crafting line is negligible because THERE IS NO POINT TO MAKING OR USING IT.

so yeah, sorry, the situation surround player conflict is directly related to the game having a point and a purpose...and well, making it a game and not a sim.

So you are saying armors and weapons will have purpose if you can use them to fight over absolutely useless buildings and towns ? Why would anyone bother to fight for something that does nothing apart of looking nice ?

A sim is a good game imo. But Xsyon is not a sim, since in a sim game everything has use and purpose. That what we need here too.

DDT, no one ever asked for a game where they can craft and build stuffs which are absolutely useless. Read the OP, he says he would like to PvP but why would he bother if the stuffs he can get do nothing.

If there was NPC town raids, I wouldn't bother to protect my stuffs....since they are worthless. The simple fact that you have to fight for something doesn't give value for it. Add value first, then it will give meaning to the fight, and will give meaning to crafting/building.

[Dubanka]

Add value first

what defines value?
- Rarity?
- Difficulty?
- Risk?
- Utility?
- Demand?
- Specialization?

you can't just 'make something valuable'. Since value is a combination of the elements above (and probably a bunch that i missed). the more elements you attribute to something the more valuable it is. THos with few elements will have little value. Without the right combination of elements, will have little value.
rare+risk+utility=VALUE!
rare+rish <> VALUE
demand+rare=value
demand+rare+risk=VALUE
etc. etc. etc.

you can't just 'add value'...since value is a summation of a number of different components.

[Jadzia]

what defines value?
- Rarity?
- Difficulty?
- Risk?
- Utility?
- Demand?
- Specialization?

you can't just 'make something valuable'. Since value is a combination of the elements above (and probably a bunch that i missed). the more elements you attribute to something the more valuable it is. THos with few elements will have little value. Without the right combination of elements, will have little value.
rare+risk+utility=VALUE!
rare+rish <> VALUE
demand+rare=value
demand+rare+risk=VALUE
etc. etc. etc.

you can't just 'add value'...since value is a summation of a number of different components.

Usage (perhaps thats what you call utility). Rarity, risk, difficulty etc can increase value...but at first the item/building HAS to have some usage. It has to give something like comfort, bonus, teleport opportunity, crafting station...something. Demand adds value, but people demand goods which are actually useful.

Pure vanity items may have value as well, if they are very rare and looks really good. But Xsyon has nothing like that.

[Dubanka]

yes, useage = utility.

but im just saying for it to be valuable it needs to be more than useful.
i mean a hammer is useful. but it has no real value, since they are easy to make from common components, easily obtained through trade, present no risk in acquiring, etc. All it has is utility.

In fact i would go so far as to say that just about everything in xsyon has some level of utility. weaposn kill stuff. shovels dig. axes chop. armor protects. clothes provide some vanity value for the fashion conscious among us. hunger and thirst have no value. but just about every crafteable item has utility.

The problem is, utility is where it stops. The items exist for the sake of existing. I got a hammer. ok i can hammer and make this, and this does that, but now what. Once you get beyond the initial level or two of utility...you gather, you refine, you create....and you do what with it?

ideally you intersperse risk, and difficulty, and rarity in the in the gather and creation stage, that adds value to the components. it makes the act of gather or creating valuable...Providing the end item has value.

the value equation really culminates with the value of existence. Does existence have risk? difficulty? Utility (a purpose)? are my skills in demand? Am I unique? II know i'm not sure sharpest tool in the shed, but i do not see how you make existence in a game interesting if you deprive that existence of risk and difficulty. It's like quoting Mr. Smith in the Matrix talking about how their initial human sim failed because they made it a virtual nirvana...only when they added strife and chaos did it actually thrive.

anyway *shrug* like i said, they should jsut remove the pvp component completely and go full on careabear so they can at least work on focusing their gameplay model. Right now they are trying to shoot at too many targets, and they are missing all of them. Go for the carebear sim so we can have a lol lesson learned moment in the future :/