The Best way to handle macroers

[Sirius]

Lol I don't think any clarification is needed.

If you make/use a program that sends input to the client, trying to argue "but it wasn't sending data to the client! it only sent it to the OS, which passed it along to the client!" is just not going to cut it. That's like saying you didn't send a mailbomb to your victim (you only sent it to the post office!).

The words I used were mine, not Virtus's. I could come up with more bulletproof language, but it seems unnecessary as the meaning is fairly clear. And, the use of general language in the TOS gives the devs some more flexibility in policing their game.

[Sorakin]

Lol I don't think any clarification is needed.

If you make/use a program that sends input to the client, trying to argue "but it wasn't sending data to the client! it only sent it to the OS, which passed it along to the client!" is just not going to cut it. That's like saying you didn't send a mailbomb to your victim (you only sent it to the post office!).

The words I used were mine, not Virtus's. I could come up with more bulletproof language, but it seems unnecessary as the meaning is fairly clear.

Well I misinterpreted you originally to mean something else... so obviously the meaning wasn't clear. And yes I read it over and over. Reading/sniffing the client is what Bots do, not macro programs. Saying something in your own language which is not specific and then saying Virtus has confirmed this information is just asking for trouble.

Sorry, next time I will just disbelieve you and wait for clear and concise information to come from Virtus instead of heresay. I guess thats why heresay isn't allowed as evidence in courtrooms.

[Zenmaster13]

The funny thing is, it's a vague rule, difficult to enforce and honestly, treat the problem and not the symptom.

People use macros because of the way is designed. I use macro's to perform repetitive tasks. Having to perform 6 clicks per combine when crafting, starts to hurt in the wrist. If I have everything needed, I really shouldn't have to right click it every time.

Does this give me an advantage over other players? I suppose if you consider my chances of wrist issues are lower, sure.

The problem is the macroer. The symptom is over skilled players who become bored because they macroed, thus creating another problem.

I often hear the same argument you put forward. " I am saving myself from carpo-tunnel". BS, if you really want to save your wrists, why are you playing at all? Very weak premise. Yes it does give you an advantage( not that I care, because I don't let it affect me). Most software and games have repetitve tasks involving clicks and keyboard commands. This is something you cannot get away from if you want to play ANY game.

The problem is more with the people wanting it all now or as soon as possible, not with game design. If it could be prevented through game design, it would already have been done. Dispute this if you want, but there have been millions of hours put in by programmers all around the world, but no software exists with repetitive tasks, that is unmacroable.

[Sirius]

Well I misinterpreted you originally to mean something else... so obviously the meaning wasn't clear. And yes I read it over and over. Reading/sniffing the client is what Bots do, not macro programs.

Uhm.. what I said was this:

is OK so long as it doesn't touch or interact with the client, i.e. send it data or read/sniff data from it.

Notice the bolded parts. All macro programs send data to the client -- even the ones that send it to Windows first.

Saying something in your own language which is not specific and then saying Virtus has confirmed this information is just asking for trouble. Sorry, next time I will just disbelieve you and wait for clear and concise information to come from Virtus instead of heresay. I guess thats why heresay isn't allowed as evidence in courtrooms.

When talking with Virtus I used the exact same language as I just used in this thread. He said it's fine.

And the language I used is as specific as you're going to get. For example, look at the TOS and all you see is incredibly general language. That's because if they were to get very specific, they'd have people looking for loopholes and mincing words just like you are, trying to argue that a program isn't really "sending data to the client" so long as it uses the frickin' operating system as an intermediary...

Moral of the story: use software that does none of the things I described, you're fine. A bit of common sense goes a long way.

[Sorakin]

I get what you are saying now and thanks for clarifying as I originally asked, only took a handful of demeaning posts to get what I originally asked for. I feel like I'm playing a game of LoL, the louder you yell the more right you are.

[joexxxz]

All macroing would be impossible if windows created some sorf of protection from this. Also intel. And the hardware manufacturers

Blame those guys

[niccoli00]

The problem is the macroer. The symptom is over skilled players who become bored because they macroed, thus creating another problem.

I often hear the same argument you put forward. " I am saving myself from carpo-tunnel". BS, if you really want to save your wrists, why are you playing at all? Very weak premise. Yes it does give you an advantage( not that I care, because I don't let it affect me). Most software and games have repetitve tasks involving clicks and keyboard commands. This is something you cannot get away from if you want to play ANY game.

The problem is more with the people wanting it all now or as soon as possible, not with game design. If it could be prevented through game design, it would already have been done. Dispute this if you want, but there have been millions of hours put in by programmers all around the world, but no software exists with repetitive tasks, that is unmacroable.

I'd like to know what advantage it gives, based on your opinion. If I sit at the computer, clicking the entire time, or I have something click for me while I sit at the computer. Both can only operate at the same speed. Both have the same timers for creating/gathering.

So if they added a system to crafting that checked to see if you had what was needed, and all you had to do was click once. Hell, even say "I want to make 10" so you type 10 and click once, that it would somehow break things?

Seriously?

As it is, if I want to make 10 forager paddles, simple, 2 items to make. I click 100 times for the stone, 20 times to pick each item, 10 times for each create. Not to mention all the mouse dragging.

Does this make the game fun somehow?

Sure, ALL games have repetitive tasks, I never said they didn't. But a lot of games try to actually make the gameplay where it doesn't require a retarded amount of clicks/movements to perform them. And guess what, in those games, I haven't bothered looking at macros because THERE WAS NO POINT.

Some people make macro's to avoid these pointless repetitions. Others do it to gain skill while not having to sit at the machine. Both of these could be mitigated by changes to the way skill gain occurs as well as how gameplay is done. Gameplay improvements benefit everyone. Wasting guide time hunting down afk macroers is semi effective and doesn't benefit anyone directly.

All macroing would be impossible if windows created some sorf of protection from this. Also intel. And the hardware manufacturers

Blame those guys

LOL.

I work for a software testing company. I'd have to change careers if this were the case. Automation makes testing much much smoother. Not that you'd ever see any kind of block of what automation software can do at the OS level.

[joexxxz]

LOL.

I work for a software testing company. I'd have to change careers if this were the case. Automation makes testing much much smoother. Not that you'd ever see any kind of block of what automation software can do at the OS level.

No really, U would still have the job, but the programmers who write macro programs to hack games, would be out of job, u know how?

[Redus]

I often hear the same argument you put forward. " I am saving myself from carpo-tunnel". BS, if you really want to save your wrists, why are you playing at all? Very weak premise. Yes it does give you an advantage( not that I care, because I don't let it affect me).

Why does a F1 cars get saver and saver? If the driver is so afraid to crash and get wounded then why drive at all? While playing a game might not wound your that bad it is the same.

Sirius I think he meant what you trying to say he meant. However there is a big difference from setting my keyboard to do some macro's or actually sending data to the client. When someone is using read/sniff data and sending data in one sentence then I am thinking about catching network/client packages and altering the data and send it back with false data.

In fact any keystroke and mouse click whatever a macro or not is done by a third party application :P

Beside that why did he not just say "No you can not use a macro". Is it really that hard? However like I said before. If you are not sure then do not use it!!

[Sirius]

I get what you are saying now and thanks for clarifying as I originally asked, only took a handful of demeaning posts to get what I originally asked for. I feel like I'm playing a game of LoL, the louder you yell the more right you are.

Dude it was all stated correctly in the first post, not sure what more you expect.

When someone is using read/sniff data and sending data in one sentence then I am thinking about catching network/client packages and altering the data and send it back with false data.

Ok, I guess I can see how you would think I meant something different. But notice my original post also said that it was forbidden to use software that interacts with the client. You agree that any software that sends data or commands to the client is "interacting" with it, right?