Feedback Request: Abandonment Phase Patch

[MrDDT]

Ok Hunting and crafting is what i love to do in this game and idk about all these numbers and percents from this and that and was confused about what part of this was over powered but you can throw any stat number on whatever and I really dont care ive crafted and played games that based stats on high and low numbers.What really makes it matter and what i want to see is it have an great deal of effect in my toon from high end to low and thats the fun part i get from crafting is maybe i want to run a lil faster maybe a lil longer instead or come up with a good mix of effects from the stats that suit my playing style.With the changes/nerf I dont see any change from this that is going to make me want to put in the kind of effort it takes to get to that high end.As a matter of fact the drop in my energy use from my fort suit was so drastic theres no way in hell i would ever bother to make another one and why would I when its so small of effect you wouldent even notice if someone swapped suits on me when i wasent looking? I really dont care how this is done and i love the idea of the artisan and master suits but if i cant see the change and have fun mixing it up then its not fun at all and not worth the effort.


And dont get me wrong im not looking to be OP or have high stats so i can change suits and craft high end at all.My real goal be for nerf and after animals was fixed was to put my 100 plus for suit away and build a mixed stat suit that best fit my playing style and the effects from stats is what woul;d have made it matter and thats the part that was fun for me and was my goals in the game and as a crafter. After nerf theres nothing for me there because theres lil effect from it and no reason for me to even bother.


Know whats really OP the master and artisan tools ive been trying to get limits on for as long as they have been out.

These 2 posts hit the nail right on the head for me.

Unclean to me is saying the effect needs to be worth the effort (at least that's how I read it) on top of that, he want's the effect to be worth while as a whole.
I fully agree with this. I dont care what you call the bonus on the gear the effect needs to be there.

Also the other point that Unclean is making which I fully agree with is that master and artisan tools are very powerful, they can take a 40 skill crafter and make him so strong they can make the highest QL in the game.

Now I would be ok with this bonus on Master/Artisan tools IF they were much harder to get, make, use and broke very fast. Meaning if these tools allowed you to craft 2 or 3 items and would break then people would have to really choose what to make with them and not use them for everything under the sun like they are worthless.
This is sorta another topic, but ties into the armor nerf.

Hello Xsyon and DDT,

Normale i do not write much on the forum but this time i feel i need to do it. I hope you understand what i write down because i need to translate a lot. fist of all i realy think you and your people are working very hard to make Xsyon the best game it can become. No doubts about it. On the other hand, DDT point out a lot of things that realy are a problem in xsyon. Most of what he is saying i agre. The difference between me and him is that i allways like to look at the bright side of live. ( DDT you can hit me if you want) Some times it is hard but also with the problems xyon have there will be a solution. The solution will not be reached by how you 2 (xsyon and DDT) are communicate. You 2 guys are telling your thoughts but i don't see a search for a solution of the problem.

I put in more information how i think about xsyon so perspective of you 2 stories become more clear.

- revenants is a good thing developers did. I love it. Maybe some better reward when we kill them.
- i don't like that gear will have the uperhand but the low bonus gear give at the moment don't make me happy. I allmost fight better without gear then with it. gear needs to give more. Why will i buy gear if it don't mater if i wear it. So i only train my skills because they give a bonus to a stat. When i have the bonus i probaly not built gear with my skills because the low bonus it give.
- there is no market. Only some people are trading or give there stuf away because they have no values. i think it will help when you look at your totem that you can see all market orders in the area of local. I think that will be 9 zone's
- we need more scarce materials that you can find on lets say 20 small places on the map. This way we will get more transport and trade. We will get something to fight for. I don't want to turn this game in a hardcore PVP game but some PVP will be welcome.
- we need totems that want fuel when ground is expand outside the basic tribe ground quantity. I don't like how the tribe ground quantity is dun now by player numbers in tribe. Maybe we can have a god in game for confidence. This god want sacrifice. Sacrifice can be given through a totem pole. God of confidence need materials like 2 altars, 5 wine cups, 2 animals heads, ????,??? to give 2 weeks of building ground upgrade or safe ground upgrade. The materials the god needs can be build like it works in game now but then you need this scarce materials that you can find on lets say 20 small places on the map. This way people start gather in 1 tribe to boost ground and protect there scarce materials on transport. There can be more gods in game for other boost.
-can we have some leaderships skills. A system that you can fight in a group. The guy that start the group give a boost to all players. This don't have to be much 1 or 2 stats point will do it. I expect by this way more people gather for a fight, hunt or crafting.

Ok this are some things that get through my mind hope it is valuable.

We all want a good game so lets work together players and developers. Positive criticism and developers that lissen to there player base. Many contradictory messages from noobs and professionail players we will get but try to filter what matters. Developers i love xsyon game and i hope to see it grow. Xsyon have so much new things i can't find in other games let it not be lost.

Snakepit ingame name

You English isnt that great, but I agree with what you are talking about, you made many great points here and even though English is my first language I have a hard time expressing what I am thinking. I believe you said it well and it expresses what I'm thinking. This gear in game needs to be worthwhile not worthless.
People shouldnt be giving away gear to just anyone like its nothing, it should be worth something both to the person giving it away, and the person getting it. Right now even the best gear is almost no worth and surely not worth the time to make it.



Another major thing this armor nerf did which I don't believe is truly seen yet by a lot of people is it evens all the stats out on players. Instead of specing into a play style they will spec for jack of all trades. This is something I really do not like. I like making choices for my playstyle which could be totally different than someone elses.

Let me give you an example.

Dang vs MrDDT (Both Combat Specs)
Dang (AKA Unclean's alt) doesnt like AGI armor or STR armor. He went 100% FORT. He believes not only is it the best for his play style, which is worry less about dodging, not worry so much about how much each hit is doing in damage, take a hit but give a hit. FORT allows for better HP, more energy which allows him to stay in battle longer taking hits but wearing down the target. He would also wear BONE armor for the extra resistance to damage but slower movement and uses more energy.
MrDDT (my Combat toon) doesnt like FORT, I ended up with a mix of AGI and STR armor. I believe it fit my play style to be faster in attacking, and do a little more damage because I tend not to be hit, and I have manage my energy better. I make my strikes and have to dodge attacks (manually) and rest for energy when I have to chance. I liked LEATHER armor due to being lighter so I saved energy, and was forced to dodge attacks more.

In the new system this choice will not be there.
Dang (who before likes fort) will now have a +25 FORT, +25 AGI, +25 STR armor suit.
MrDDT (who likes AGI mostly with a mix of STR) will now have +25 FORT, +25 AGI, +25 STR armor suit.

Completely different playstyle due to the type of armor they are using, based on what the player liked. Now everyone will be a clone using the same 3 or 4 stats for whatever they are doing. No more choosing a playstyle.

[Xsyon]

What I'm getting from all this feedback is that the main issue is this:

An increase of 25 stat points is not significant enough for some (many?) players (at least in regards to some of the functions these stats affect such as damage increase).

It should be significant. If a 25 point gain is not worth gaining through a set of armor, it certainly isn't worth gaining through grinding in my opinion. Further balancing the effects gained per stat point, especially gained beyond 100 (with should be considered extraordinary stats) will happen in this current round of development.

[MrDDT]

What I'm getting from all this feedback is that the main issue is this:

An increase of 25 stat points is not significant enough for some (many?) players (at least in regards to some of the functions these stats affect such as damage increase).

It should be significant. If a 25 point gain is not worth gaining through a set of armor, it certainly isn't worth gaining through grinding in my opinion. Further balancing the effects gained per stat point, especially gained beyond 100 (with should be considered extraordinary stats) will happen in this current round of development.

To gain 10 to 12 points of a stat it will take maybe 50 hours. (10 to 12 is the diff from very very common crafted STR suits to a +25 STR suit.)
To go from a common STR suit +12ish to a +25 STR suit you need to kill MAX level animals MUTANT versions (Currently not even in game FYI). This will take 100s of man hours, on top of the fact you need max skills.

Some vs many? Can we even say many at this point for anything? Do you think "many" like Revs? When I would say people love them but there is only a few dozen people playing.


It's all stats should have equal effect. Meaning they should be wanted equally. Damage is a highly valued stat to combat players however to a scavenger its next to worthless. While to a scavenger CHA is highly valued and STR isnt valued much at all.

Also some stats have double bonuses.

STR, AGI, FORT have the most double bonus. (Both crafting, combat and everyday play) while stats like INT are next to worthless outside of crafting/gathering.

My question is what's wrong with having very high stats if you sacrifice other stats? If stats were balanced correctly (with each other not in the # of stat you could have) then getting a high focus stat shouldn't be a problem.
Why would you want to punish people for following a focus? Heck if anything you should reward players that focus.

What you are doing with your "effect over 100" is you are forcing everyone to have all the same stats. Players will now instead of focusing they will have the max bonus of mix of stats. So everyone will be clones because its stupid to focus due to the loss of effect.

Dang vs MrDDT (Both Combat Specs)
Dang (AKA Unclean's alt) doesnt like AGI armor or STR armor. He went 100% FORT. He believes not only is it the best for his play style, which is worry less about dodging, not worry so much about how much each hit is doing in damage, take a hit but give a hit. FORT allows for better HP, more energy which allows him to stay in battle longer taking hits but wearing down the target. He would also wear BONE armor for the extra resistance to damage but slower movement and uses more energy.
MrDDT (my Combat toon) doesnt like FORT, I ended up with a mix of AGI and STR armor. I believe it fit my play style to be faster in attacking, and do a little more damage because I tend not to be hit, and I have manage my energy better. I make my strikes and have to dodge attacks (manually) and rest for energy when I have to chance. I liked LEATHER armor due to being lighter so I saved energy, and was forced to dodge attacks more.

In the new system this choice will not be there.
Dang (who before likes fort) will now have a +25 FORT, +25 AGI, +25 STR armor suit.
MrDDT (who likes AGI mostly with a mix of STR) will now have +25 FORT, +25 AGI, +25 STR armor suit.

If your version makes it so these to builds are equal in effect but both are different in how they want to play I'm fine. Problem I see is what you are doing is removing choice and playstyle for "balanced" stats and skills to what you think people want or should be.

Balance the effect of EACH point, not a bell curve or something. Then let players build their toons and play how they want.

From what I'm reading here is you want to make it so that each +1 STR over 100 = .75 STR then maybe each +1 STR over 120 = .50 STR
So what you will do is just force people to have all the stats because it will give the best effect.

[Xsyon]

I'm sorry, but you are making some incorrect assumptions.

A set of +25 in 3 stats won't be possible. Master sets will allow for more materials, thus more stat bonuses, but secondary and tertiary materials won't apply the same bonus as your primary material. My response about the stat limits above were to clarify with Riverspirit limits are currently in game.

Sets that are currently +12 will also be properly scaled when the crafting revisions are done. There is no intention to simply 'nerf' the top armor sets without balancing the rest. It's just more complicated to do so and will be done with a coming patch.

It will be much better to comment on the crafting and set revisions in game when they are ready.

[MrDDT]

I'm sorry, but you are making some incorrect assumptions.

A set of +25 in 3 stats won't be possible. Master sets will allow for more materials, thus more stat bonuses, but secondary and tertiary materials won't apply the same bonus as your primary material. My response about the stat limits above were to clarify with Riverspirit limits are currently in game.

Sets that are currently +12 will also be properly scaled when the crafting revisions are done. There is no intention to simply 'nerf' the top armor sets without balancing the rest. It's just more complicated to do so and will be done with a coming patch.

It will be much better to comment on the crafting and set revisions in game when they are ready.

Ok, I guess we will just have to wait for them to be in game broken to comment on them. Like the 8 months of AI being broken, the months and months of no mutants we have now. Sounds like a great plan.

No need to try to figure it out before you break it more.


So back the stuff that's in game. We now have a broken crafting system that is nerfed so hard its pointless to make crafted armor. Noobs can make equal armor as a skilled crafter. Great work.

[taediumvitae]

I totally agree with what DDT said in this thread.

Before this patch:

6600 shoulders in game have a strength bonus below 1
28 shoulders in game ranged from 1 to 2 strength bonus (0.06 to 0.12 damage bonus)
23 shoulders in game ranged from 2 to 3 strength bonus (0.12 to 0.18 damage bonus)
30 shoulders in game ranged from 3 to 4 strength bonus (0.18 to 0.24 damage bonus)
2 shoulders in game exceeded a bonus of 4 (slightly) (0.24+)

First of most of the shoulders that are ingame are just grind items, I have a few baskets of those myself, I made them from the worst possible materials just to grind my skill)

I never had a need to craft a STR suit and I haven't killed many mutated bear. (deers mostly in my parts), but it was easy (if You had 95+ hunting and leathercraft) to make +5 to single stat Shoulders (+2 fur, +3 leather - thats from old mutated parts).
+70 STR suit (bone armor with 6 leather parts) & another +10 if You used titanium elements. So +80 STR suit.
After one of the patches mutated animal parts gave up to +4 most , +6 leather/round bones.
So in theory it was possible to make +10 shoulders. (+150 STR suit MAXed pimped out titanium)

After days of hunting and searching for mutated animals I managed to make +7.59 FORT shoulder pads. (+97 FORT set)

Having good armor really made a difference back then and there was always room for improvement. It was almost impossible to get the best mats.

Now You have made regular animals harder to kill then mutants ever was (Thats good imo), but the reward (+25 to stat from legendary mutants) is hmm... not worth an effort.
Like DDT said its much easier to grind +25 in a stat than it is to get mats to craft the best suit (that You can loose). I do not even mention the skills needed to craft it.

I would like to have a reason to play the game.
Right not, with crafting nerfed there is none.

[Dakeen]

Even though this is suppose to be about abandonment.... I know you guys are going to REALLY crap on me for this but... Honestly it was to much. When someone told me you could just make a suit and make the best weapons in the game with starting 30 dex and 40 in weapon craft I was like ok... what is the point of raising anything but leather and bone craft? More schemes thats it. So I would never become the master toolcrafter of the north because you just slip on a some armor and your golden. Yes your right. I don't know shit, I am a noob, but from over here it sounds like you all just got too used to it. Personally I would LOVE some armor that boosted stats up 25. It's like hearing a multimillionaire say he can't live on 100k a year when your only making 30k =S

[MrDDT]

Even though this is suppose to be about abandonment.... I know you guys are going to REALLY crap on me for this but... Honestly it was to much. When someone told me you could just make a suit and make the best weapons in the game with starting 30 dex and 40 in weapon craft I was like ok... what is the point of raising anything but leather and bone craft? More schemes thats it. So I would never become the master toolcrafter of the north because you just slip on a some armor and your golden. Yes your right. I don't know shit, I am a noob, but from over here it sounds like you all just got too used to it. Personally I would LOVE some armor that boosted stats up 25. It's like hearing a multimillionaire say he can't live on 100k a year when your only making 30k =S

I think you are a bit confused.

You willing to put in about 2000 man hours to make a suit of armor that boosts you 25STR when you can spend 5 hours and make one that does 12STR?
I guess having that +13STR for 1995 man hours is worth it to some, but I dont see it being traded.

[unclean666]

Ok last post and ill let it go.

This did not start when you boosted mutant and animal parts with age.We where making suits of all animal kinds way before that with 70 80 and i think we where up to 90 by the time that patch came so idk why all of a sudden its a extreme problem.But I can kind of see why it shouldent be that high because one of the things I did use armor bonus for was to go from craft to craft with really high stats in almost everything.After the stats and skill patch they did get even bigger numbers but i thought you all knew this and I was worried that after the stat and skill patch it would still let everyone do all and be all at high end.

But all that aside the changes from that patch never really was going to change much anyway because you dident fix Artisan and Master tools from being so OP after ive been telling you all what they can do for as long as you patched them in.....I said it even on test server and was pretty much told im a high level crafter and to get lost we know what where doing in so many words.

If you think those tools not having some kind of limit like 95 in said skill for ART and 100 skill for master then you made a big misstake because I used to trade a lot before they came a long because very few could make supreme stuff because there stats wasent set for that craft like mine was even after i would try and teach them what all had to be done there stats just wouldent let them pull it off.After the tool patch within a few days of people getting those tool recipes trade was dead and i mean DEAD.....besides art and master recipes of course.

A lot of the same can still be done today even with stat and skill change thats a lot of the reason trade dident pick up.Sure you might you might build your toon to be a master bonecrafter or leather but a lot of stuff that could have been needed by others creating trade in the game was ruined by tools because you could still use them without good stats and far from 100 skill to make a lot of supreme mats needed by crafters in almost every craft like leather straps,wood handles,cloth straps ect ect and that made your craft still not needed by other players in the game. Example of Art and master tools op...Back before Stat and skill change Unclean was not setup or skilled in bonecraft so 50ish Str 62 Bonecraft skill and the right mats and master tools was crafting supreme bone armor with no problems and ive heard even worse skill and stats getting supreme.

With all these changes you have and are doing tools will still keep it unbalanced and ive done everything I can to get you all to fix it and ive been ignored and put off everytime and thats not a slap in the face to a crafter who has wanted nothing but balance?

You say you dont want this game to be like other Theme Park Games thats gear based but Xsyon imo even with very high gear is nothing like theme park gear.This is player made gear and all the time and work done to make it should have a big pay off and be worth something in the game I mean if the gear isent worth something what did you plan to hold value?Like i said though player made gear WE made the awesome gear we use and thats what I love about the crafting in this game.As for theme park games as you said you dident want it to be like players dont even use the gear made from almost all those games they use gear from boss and mob drops thats way better then what most those games have that the player can craft in the games crafting and thats why there crafting sys sucks because its useless gear that no one wants.

All and all fix tools and please dont make the crafting like theme park games....useless.

Added after 8 Hours 53 minutes:

Added after 6 minutes:

Bins inside of tents and storage type building are still locked with permissions and you cant loot them.Opening the tent ect works fine you just cant touch the bins this isent how it should work is it?

[Dakeen]

On topic: All the revenants in 1018 and 1019 (anywhere near Hightop Keep) that had gotten big have shrunk down and gotten really fat. Infact all of revanants i have seen lately are both fat andd short, not an exageration literally 99% or more of them are fat and none are taller than me(I think im like 170). I'm guessing they are randomized in appearance or something but I think you got a quirk in there some where. They all seemed to change over night sometime the weekend of release. First day we had one that was alot taller than any character after some of us had fought ti several times, it was alot scarier then.. now they are all little fat blobs lol.