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Thread: Exodus

  1. #11
    Sorry to see you go MewMew... it's true that the giggling pimple faced hunters can get a bit annoying, and having to babysit them is not much incentive to log in.

    That said, there are also some very cool people in game. It's a shame you didn't get a chance to meet many of them from the sounds of it. I hope you'll give the game another chance down the road. Builders like you often can help create a more relaxed atmosphere which is why many hard working adults choose to play video games.

    I understand you're not branding all PvP'ers... just pointing out that without the right mechanics in place, it only takes a handful of little bully wannabes... seen it happen in other games as well. Shame we have to design for the lowest common denominator but that's how it is.

    Best of luck in whatever game you try next!

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadzia View Post
    This is such a bad argument. PvP doesn't create any more demand that PvE couldn't create.

    Let's see it.
    Say player A wants an armor. Player B wants the same type of armor.
    PvE game : Both of them buy it from a crafter. So there is a demand for 2 crafted items.

    PvP game: Player A buys the armor. Player B kills player A and takes the armor from him. Player A buys the armor again. So there is a demand for 2 crafted items.

    How exactly this boost the economy ??

    PvP doesn't create any plus demands, items only shift ownership. If there was item loss on PvP then perhaps yes, but not as it works now. But you can implement item loss on PvE death as well, so no need for PvP for that either.

    Only a system which takes items out of the game could boost the economy. It has NOTHING to do with PvP.

    @joexxxz:
    I didn't change my mind.
    PvE - PvE players want Armour, either make armour themself or buys it. PvE players have Armour, do not need new Armour.
    PvP - PvPer and PvEer want Armour, PvEer either buys armour or makes it, PvPer buys armour. PvPer kills other PvPers and PvEers, those PvPers and PvEers have to buy new armour. Loop continues.

    With no PvP there is limited loss. Demand cannot be sustained with every player buying something once, eventually you get to a point where every PvE player can either make the goods themselves or have everything they want.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by pyrate View Post
    PvE - PvE players want Armour, either make armour themself or buys it. PvE players have Armour, do not need new Armour.
    PvP - PvPer and PvEer want Armour, PvEer either buys armour or makes it, PvPer buys armour. PvPer kills other PvPers and PvEers, those PvPers and PvEers have to buy new armour. Loop continues.

    With no PvP there is limited loss. Demand cannot be sustained with every player buying something once, eventually you get to a point where every PvE player can either make the goods themselves or have everything they want.
    Seems you didn't understand what I wrote. There is no item loss with PvP, only ownership shifts. Its exactly the same as with PvE. Both system need item decay, that is the only thing that can create demand, when the armors break and can't be repaired.

    Say there is 1000 players in a PvP games. They need 1000 armors. If a PvPer kills another player and takes his armor then the PvPer will have 2 of the same armor. So he sells one to another player, who won't buy it from a crafter. The 1000 players will need 1000 armor, no matter if its a PvE system or a PvP one. There is no more demand for armors in a PvP system then in a PvE one.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadzia View Post
    Seems you didn't understand what I wrote. There is no item loss with PvP, only ownership shifts. Its exactly the same as with PvE. Both system need item decay, that is the only thing that can create demand, when the armors break and can't be repaired.

    Say there is 1000 players in a PvP games. They need 1000 armors. If a PvPer kills another player and takes his armor then the PvPer will have 2 of the same armor. So he sells one to another player, who won't buy it from a crafter. The 1000 players will need 1000 armor, no matter if its a PvE system or a PvP one. There is no more demand for armors in a PvP system then in a PvE one.
    You assume that the PvPer will sell back the armour they take, this is not the case. PvPers will stock pile what they get so they themselves will not have to ever buy armour again. Anything that is not really worth anything just gets thrown away. On top of that kill distribution is never equal, it is always a small group that make the majority of kills. The result is a small group of players with an endless supply of goods they take from others, while the majority have to make or buy the goods that the better PvP players take and stockpile.

    Since you have a clear distaste for PvP you do not have a clear picture of what is actually involved with being a PvPer.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by pyrate View Post
    You assume that the PvPer will sell back the armour they take, this is not the case. PvPers will stock pile what they get so they themselves will not have to ever buy armour again. Anything that is not really worth anything just gets thrown away. On top of that kill distribution is never equal, it is always a small group that make the majority of kills. The result is a small group of players with an endless supply of goods they take from others, while the majority have to make or buy the goods that the better PvP players take and stockpile.

    Since you have a clear distaste for PvP you do not have a clear picture of what is actually involved with being a PvPer.
    I think that model may be what the OP was talking about though. Clearly it works out for the small group that make the majority of the kills. They enjoy killing, they get rewarded for killing, they continue killing. They don't really need to take a break to trade or craft, since they get their needs filled by killing and thus must do more killing. I don't even think the small group in question would enjoy taking a break to trade and craft as the killing rewards the pleasure centers in their brain whereas the PVE/casual PVPers get the pleasure centers activated in a different way which is why it's nearly impossible to get the balance right on the same server, but anyway...

    The problem I'm seeing with this is that the majority doesn't necessarily enjoy getting continually killed by the small group. It's just not fun after a while. It's one thing if it's occasional and adds a bit of spice but the small group doesn't generally let up since killing is their primary bread and butter. Again, the killing is rewarding their amygdala which makes them want to kill more. It's more than just the loot, it literally feels good.

    It kind of makes the majority that gets killed sound like an elaborate AI-system for the small group to hunt... not really what the majority signed up for I don't think.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Book View Post
    I think that model may be what the OP was talking about though. Clearly it works out for the small group that make the majority of the kills. They enjoy killing, they get rewarded for killing, they continue killing. They don't really need to take a break to trade or craft, since they get their needs filled by killing and thus must do more killing. I don't even think the small group in question would enjoy taking a break to trade and craft as the killing rewards the pleasure centers in their brain whereas the PVE/casual PVPers get the pleasure centers activated in a different way which is why it's nearly impossible to get the balance right on the same server, but anyway...

    The problem I'm seeing with this is that the majority doesn't necessarily enjoy getting continually killed by the small group. It's just not fun after a while. It's one thing if it's occasional and adds a bit of spice but the small group doesn't generally let up since killing is their primary bread and butter. Again, the killing is rewarding their amygdala which makes them want to kill more. It's more than just the loot, it literally feels good.

    It kind of makes the majority that gets killed sound like an elaborate AI-system for the small group to hunt... not really what the majority signed up for I don't think.

    Right but the issue is really that you parked your totem in a spot that some one else does not want you to be and then you decide "No, i picked this spot because i like the tree right over there, im not going to leave" so you refuse to move and you refuse to fight but then complain when getting killed because they wont leave you alone.

    You can even be warned "hey if you setup camp here we are going to kill you every chance there is, please move" but no you want to stay and you want to get killed because you know if you go over here they will attack you.

    This is like living in a inner city versus a suburb. you move some where that has gang violence and are warned "dont wear those colors because rival gangs wear them" but "no, im going to wear my pink polo shirt because i shouldn't have to listen to these terrorists" then you go walk over to the quickey mark and then get shot by a gang member.....

    This game is basically the wild west with the Land grab that happening, you had good guys, bad guys, griefers and pkers.

    The Game is open world PVP your choices are simple, you either move some where, where there are no griefers, you join a tribe, you hire body guards, learn to fight or run. There will be no server splits, no pve only zones, none of that crap. you already have a safe zone, heck some zones are protected by tribes you just need to be social.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by xyberviri View Post
    Right but the issue is really that you parked your totem in a spot that some one else does not want you to be and then you decide "No, i picked this spot because i like the tree right over there, im not going to leave" so you refuse to move and you refuse to fight but then complain when getting killed because they wont leave you alone.

    You can even be warned "hey if you setup camp here we are going to kill you every chance there is, please move" but no you want to stay and you want to get killed because you know if you go over here they will attack you.

    This is like living in a inner city versus a suburb. you move some where that has gang violence and are warned "dont wear those colors because rival gangs wear them" but "no, im going to wear my pink polo shirt because i shouldn't have to listen to these terrorists" then you go walk over to the quickey mark and then get shot by a gang member.....

    This game is basically the wild west with the Land grab that happening, you had good guys, bad guys, griefers and pkers.

    The Game is open world PVP your choices are simple, you either move some where, where there are no griefers, you join a tribe, you hire body guards, learn to fight or run. There will be no server splits, no pve only zones, none of that crap. you already have a safe zone, heck some zones are protected by tribes you just need to be social.
    Hmm but what if you were on that spot first, settled down, built up your camp, and 3 weeks later a PKer tribe sets up their camp beside you ? Then its not you who has set up your camp at the wrong spot.

    About server split:
    We will have one server at start.

    We are considering two separate worlds to accomodate a different game play style if we have enough players that are interested in a 'safer' environment.
    This is something Jordi said a year ago. I wouldn't be so sure that it won't happen. One server with 2 big zones would benefit everyone imo.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by xyberviri View Post
    Right but the issue is really that you parked your totem in a spot that some one else does not want you to be and then you decide "No, i picked this spot because i like the tree right over there, im not going to leave" so you refuse to move and you refuse to fight but then complain when getting killed because they wont leave you alone.

    You can even be warned "hey if you setup camp here we are going to kill you every chance there is, please move" but no you want to stay and you want to get killed because you know if you go over here they will attack you.

    This is like living in a inner city versus a suburb. you move some where that has gang violence and are warned "dont wear those colors because rival gangs wear them" but "no, im going to wear my pink polo shirt because i shouldn't have to listen to these terrorists" then you go walk over to the quickey mark and then get shot by a gang member.....

    This game is basically the wild west with the Land grab that happening, you had good guys, bad guys, griefers and pkers.

    The Game is open world PVP your choices are simple, you either move some where, where there are no griefers, you join a tribe, you hire body guards, learn to fight or run. There will be no server splits, no pve only zones, none of that crap. you already have a safe zone, heck some zones are protected by tribes you just need to be social.
    I'm not encountering a problem

    Are you saying that's what happened to the OP?

    There are definitely cases where the griefing is not for any of the reasons you suggested but rather because the griefing player(s) simply enjoy ruining someone else's day. They generally will choose someone without the resources to defend themselves because the sense of empowerment they get is not something they can experience in real life. In fact, they often are the victims of bullying in real life, in some way, which is why they resort to regaining the sense of power they've lost in RL by picking on people online.

    I've mentioned Jumpgate Classic elsewhere but that's a good example of the majority deciding to leave a game where a small minority had decided to impose constant griefing. As I said, it's unfortunate games need to be designed for the lowest common denominator, but what makes them the lowest common denominator is a general lack of empathy and inability to negotiate/understand-the-need-for a compromise. They want to kill, they will find a target they can easily bully around, and they will continue to do so.

    Not saying you're one of them, I don't know you or your tribe Just saying it's those types of folks that create the problem to begin with and wind up scratching their heads when the majority has left.

  9. #19
    yes the griefer pkers are basically culling the heard too much if you will.

    every now and then yes go out and kill some one but i think you are all afraid of that one ass hole that seems to kill every one and there only purpose is to login and rinse and repeat for 8 hours strait. yes that guy is a ass hole.

    now normal people dont do that they kill you once or twice then move on to another area.

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