Quality Testing

[ocoma]

First off I like this thread...so don't misunderstand.



I just disagree with this. The veil on stats and how they effect indirect things is good for the game. There might be underlying balance issues (as there will always be regardless), but now that the game is live, I think the testing you're doing now is exactly what should be part of the game ie. trying to figure out how much wood quality effects handles vs the tools used. Just because it says high quality does it mean that all high quality versions are really the same or are there variations within? If it was still beta...as in not launched... I'd say otherwise. I'd also say otherwise if this game was a number game. It's kind of the same reasoning as understanding why you can't see numbers on your health bar and how Fortitude really effects your stamina other then just increasing it. You strike me as a min/maxer, but the current "find out with no numbers" strategy they are using makes it very very hard to min and max. I think that's good (and kind of think it's done on purpose)...especially if the quality labeling is really just the labeling for ranges of values.

I understand what you are saying and for the live server that is fine, and to a degree I agree. I'm not posting 100% of the data I've been collecting here just what is needed for comparision tests with others for the reasons you stated. Your qoute of me from the OP is related to the devs saying they wish for players to test upcoming patches on the test server especially the upcoming combat changes. Players can not do that properly without tools inplace for them to make real and accurate tests. I saw that you posted in the thread I mean so I'll leave this at that and we can discuss that further in that thread if you wish. This was not a dis on you or your opinion and I'm always down for real discussion.

On the topic at hand what do you think of skill level completely overriding the mats being used and being the only real factor involved in determining the resulting quality levels of crafted products as I asked in the post right above you?

[thurgond]

It appears that the quality of crafted items currently depends on the level of the craft skill in relation to that recipe. The materials do not seem to make a difference. All the weapons I made tonight came out as "high quality" although I put different quality mats into the same recipe. At 30 basketry, I made medium quality thread and string, but low quality twine.

One thing to remember is that with decay turned off, we can't see the condition of items. The materials may make a great deal of difference in the starting condition of an item. E.g. a master craftsman might make a "very high quality" item every time, but one made with poor/low quality mats would start as worn while one made of very high/master quality mats would start as pristine.

Ravelli

[Rothkur]

First off I like this thread...so don't misunderstand.



I just disagree with this. The veil on stats and how they effect indirect things is good for the game. There might be underlying balance issues (as there will always be regardless), but now that the game is live, I think the testing you're doing now is exactly what should be part of the game ie. trying to figure out how much wood quality effects handles vs the tools used. Just because it says high quality does it mean that all high quality versions are really the same or are there variations within? If it was still beta...as in not launched... I'd say otherwise. I'd also say otherwise if this game was a number game. It's kind of the same reasoning as understanding why you can't see numbers on your health bar and how Fortitude really effects your stamina other then just increasing it. You strike me as a min/maxer, but the current "find out with no numbers" strategy they are using makes it very very hard to min and max. I think that's good (and kind of think it's done on purpose)...especially if the quality labeling is really just the labeling for ranges of values.

Wurm had no problem giving very direct values and the game was better for it. Nothing pisses me off faster than a game not giving me numerical data and formulas for which I can base my crafting on. Nothing pisses me off faster than "guessing" what to do for 36 hours before "guessing" I did it the right way and then finding out a month later I wasn't doing it in the most optimal fashion for no good reason other than some dingus randomly happened upon an insane combo that wasn't based on anythung but dumb luck.

[MrDDT]

Roth I can understand your point but many others are the other way.

I do agree though when it comes to some things like stats. Which take months of playing to even change 1 to 10 points, its not something I want to really guess at over and over. I know people have put in over 200 hours in game and still not even gained 3 points in one of the stats they want.

[Rothkur]

Roth I can understand your point but many others are the other way.

I do agree though when it comes to some things like stats. Which take months of playing to even change 1 to 10 points, its not something I want to really guess at over and over. I know people have put in over 200 hours in game and still not even gained 3 points in one of the stats they want.

I can't understand why someone would willingly subject themselves to forced ignorance by a game engine to promote grind mechanics other than they hate math so much they will not even perform basic arithmatic or algebra in their head once in a while.

Like an object saying "Improves ability to bash you in the head slightly"... well another object says the same thing yet word around the totem pole is that object 1 does it better than object 2 but no one really freaken knows.

[MrDDT]

I can't understand why someone would willingly subject themselves to forced ignorance by a game engine to promote grind mechanics other than they hate math so much they will not even perform basic arithmatic or algebra in their head once in a while.

I think it has to do with being immersed into the game, and also part of the fun to them is learning as they go. Holding some info over others because others didnt bother to test.

Im with you, I like all the numbers right in the open and have people pick whats best for their play-style.

[ocoma]

Damn I'm sorry I added that edit to the OP and it resulted in the derailment of this thread. If you want to discuss the pros/cons of giving players more accurate info in general and for testing specifically please use this thread to continue the discussion... http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthrea...player-testing...

It appears that the quality of crafted items currently depends on the level of the craft skill in relation to that recipe. The materials do not seem to make a difference. All the weapons I made tonight came out as "high quality" although I put different quality mats into the same recipe. At 30 basketry, I made medium quality thread and string, but low quality twine.

One thing to remember is that with decay turned off, we can't see the condition of items. The materials may make a great deal of difference in the starting condition of an item. E.g. a master craftsman might make a "very high quality" item every time, but one made with poor/low quality mats would start as worn while one made of very high/master quality mats would start as pristine.

Ravelli

This is a good point thurgond about condition possibly being determined by material quality. Until more of the planned features are turned on/implemented there are a number of factors we just can't take into account yet.

I really hope that does indeed end up being the case cause as it stands right now there is no real reason apparently to trade for higher quality mats to make my tools cause my skill level completely overrides all other factors. IMO the quality level of the finished products should be more dependant on the quality level of the mats and tools used to produce it and skill level of the crafter should not be the only real factor. If players need higher quality mats and tools at every stage of the crafting process it gives more value to those crafters that take the time to max their craft, requires more interdependancy between crafters and drives the economy.

[Plague]

I agree with ocoma. Master crafter should not be able to make high quality items out of poor quality ingredients. This system needs balancing. Imho.

[Azhul_NS]

What I was asking is whether the quality of the end result MATTERS. Does a high quality axe make a difference when logging? Does a high quality weapon do more damage in combat?

[unclean666]

I would say foraging skill goes with Branches grass and rock.My main is 52 forage and can gather moderate and high mostly with a few very high but not many.So it seems to be right in the middle from poor
to master and that seems right as im 52.Now my alt is 5 forage and can only find poor rock grass and branches.

I ruled scav out because my main is 100 and alt is 46 so that has no effect.Fishing logging there both pretty low so ruled those out.Hunting both about 30ish on each.

so take it as that im pretty sure forage is how Q works for those resource.

Edit; and i noticed my low forage alt is slower at gathering branches and grass then my main.